JPL 993-C4S

I have my eye on my first Porsche, a 1996 C4S with 33,000 miles. I am buying from a used car dealer.

During an independent pre-sales inspection, a third-party Porsche dealer wrote that "the clutch pedal is stiffer than normal - may need clutch soon".

The seller dismissed the stiffness as non-existent and/or irrelevant... but the inspector stood by his assessment, saying the clutch is always a very hard item to judge but that he definitely felt shaky about it.

I did notice that the clutch did not apply power until my foot was almost entirely off the clutch pedal. This struck me as odd (compared to my previous car, a BMW 325i) but the seller assured me that this was how a "racing-style clutch" always works, apparently you gotta bring them WAY out before giving it gas... so to change gears one only needs to press the clutch 20% of the way down, then shift, then release.

The seller offered a 1-year dealer warranty on "non-wear items" but he will *not* cover the clutch at all because he says that he is concerned that I could abuse it and pass him the cost.

So is the pedal stiffness a telling signal that the clutch is near death?

And is it really normal to have to bring the pedal so far out to engage power?

Am I being sold a $3000 maintenance issue?

Your opinions are very highly appreciated. Thanks.

adsc4s

The engagement point on my 97 C4S is also very high and all the 993's I have test driven prior to my purchase were the same.

I had my mechanic do an inspection on my car and I questioned him on tell tale signs of a clutch going out. His assessment was that if the clutch starts to feel stiff, the clutch may be going out. However, do not confuse stiffness for a high engagement point.

Tom W

The height at which the 993 clutch engages is not adjustable and does not really indicate wear. I replaced my clutch with the RS version with the light weight flywheel. Before replacement the clutch took a great deal of effort to depress (almost 10x what my 325 iS clutch took) and engaged about where the new one did/does. The old clutch showed some wear, but nothing excessive and had plenty of life left in it. The new clutch was very easy to depress (about like the BMW). Clutch replacement would cost a couple thousand dollars.

I'd worry more about the knowledge and trustworthiness of the seller/dealer. Making a blanket statement like he has about the engagenment height of a "racing-style" clutch is suspect.

enthusiast

I would get other 'hands on' opinions on the clutch. Find some 993 C4S owners in your location and have them do a short test drive. (maybe they will let you try their car so you can compare for yourself)

One of the issues with pre purchase inspections is trying to keep them neutral and objective. You don't want a war between the inspector and the salesman (various agendas involved here for each business).

Get a good status on the clutch before you proceed with the deal.

Terry Adams

Many here including me have redone clutches at around 70K. The best comparison would be another 993 with a recently redone clutch. Stiff to depress is a sure sign.

Arthur Del Mundo

What do you mean by stiff to depress? Can you elaborate on what that is? Just out of curiousity.

JPS

Echo comments thus far. I do wonder though, given only 33k, why new clutch? I replaced my clutch at 97k...original clutch.

Also, factor in if you do get the car and it does need a clutch, upgrading pulleys and perhaps upgrading to a lightweight flywheel. It all adds up.

nels415

Mine has always felt extremely stiff, comparing to my old car, an RX-7. But I have heard from others that p-cars are notoriously stiff. Would anybody in my area be willing to let me test drive their car, and I would offer mine?

-nelson

sy308

I picked up my last car in a wholesale deal and I was prepared to take a $5k repair bill if the car needed it before I broke even with its retail value. I am not sure if you have this "wiggle room" on this deal? In my case, it took me a month of driving the car before I was convinced the car needed clutch repair. The shop did NOT pickup the clutch issue after quite an extensive inspection and service.

Symptomatically, my car would accelerate in second gear and sometimes third gear (good choices to test this) and the motor would rev without acceleration of the car. This indicated the clutch was slipping. I suggest you do this sooner rather than later. There are plenty of cars out there for sale. Many times these cars are beat up. In my case the clutch lasted 40K. When the parts were inspected, the pressure plate was found to be cracked. This would be from rapid burnout starts in my opinion. I used a lightweight flywheel and the difference was remarkable.

The release of the clutch is now much more controlled (like your BMW description). The car does not slip. It is an obvious change.

I really emplore you to take the car out and run it, trying to duplicate the scenario I described. Act in haste, repent in leisure. Good luck.

JPL 993-C4S

When I drove the car, it seemed to accelerate and decelerate in line with RPMs, I didn't notice any slippage and the inspector didn't note any either.

The "stiffness" is not something I picked up on myself (I am too new to these cars), it was something the inspector picked up on. What exactly is meant by stiffness, and how would I notice it?

Terry Adams

The stiffness to depress is relative and progressive in the final stages of wear. The feeling is 3X to 5X relative to the pedal pressure of a new clutch. I experienced this at 70K on my 993 and 80K on my '87 3.2 Anybody care to rank the symptoms as indicators of clutch wear: stiff to depress, slippage, high engagement point?

GTR 993

I bought an RS flywheel not yet on my car. Does anyone now how much it is supposed to weigh, the reason I ask is when I received the flywheel in the box it seemed to be heavier than I thought it would be. If it is supposed to be 5-7 lbs I am not sure mine is an RS Flywheel.

Does it have a P number or a RS stamp somewhere I could check?

Atlanta_Kevin

Jploflin,
My clutch also has a high engagement point and in my opinion is stiff or heavy to depress. There is no slippage in any gear and my car only has 20K on the clock and the original rear tires lasted 15K miles so I have no reason to suspect abuse.

The PPI report also mentioned I may need a clutch in the near future. I asked how they could make this estimate and they based their opinion on the symptoms listed above. I later brought my car back in for service and the shop mgr lead me to believe they intentionally "pad" the inspections because it could lead to quick business (i.e.- have the seller pay for the repair before the sale) and or lead to long term business from the new owner because their "Padded" PPI could be used to negotiate a better price. It also covers the shop's reputation by erroring on the safe side with a great unknown like a clutch. It would be much worse for the shop to say the clutch is fine and then have it start slipping a week later. The new owner will have no faith in the shop and will feel like the PPI was a waste of money.

My recommendation based on your situation: Check to see if the clutch slips at all, if yes, have it replaced before you buy, if no, use the PPI as a negotiation tool to reduce the price for a worn clutch and start saving for when /if it starts to slip. I bet you will get thousands more miles out of it.

Kevin Reilly

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GTR 993:
<strong>I bought an RS flywheel not yet on my car. Does anyone now how much it is supposed to weigh</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I seem to recall that the RS flywheel is approx 12 lbs, versus 32 lbs for the dual mass flywheel. If you held the dual mass in your hand, you'd be amazed how heavy it is.

jhb

Point of reference for clutch stiffness: People who I let drive my 993 never complain about the clutch, either among 993s or other cars they have driven. On my 86 911, every one complained about the clutch being too hard to depress, and soon the clutch was gone, with 35k on the speedo. I do not believe the 993 clutch to be so stiff that one would "notice" it unless it was symptomatic of a problem.