E. J. - 993 Alumni

Pete, are you saying that by placing a chrome plate around the main intake hole and drilling lots of little holes instead of my fewer, bigger holes in exactly the same spot will yield 5 horsepower and mine wont? That seems pretty wild to me. In fact it seems pretty wild to me that any different air box lid would yield 5 horsepower. If you used a dyno, then who am I to argue? But I will ask my question again: "for a $250 + factory piece, what does 5 horsepower feel like when you are driving the car?"

And by the way, just in case anyone is wondering, I have never stated that my drilled air box cover will gain any horsepower, just a nice sound.

Viken

E.J.

Pete's assessment includes the factory installed motor sound mufflers, which are slightly modified to produce the "burbly" sound. If indeed the M159 option produces any more horsepower, I have not felt it.

Chris in Detroit

Thanks for the backup ! I guess I have 5 extra horsies, although never really felt them vs. someone elses 911.

It does make sense that the free-er flowing exhaust (bigger bypass tube ?) helps a little

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Chris, I think this is what I was trying to say. I don't know anyone who can feel 5 horsepower difference. Sure, maybe the whole motorsound package makes a difference and some other changes like a dme change along with the motorsound package can be felt, but I don't think anyone can really tell the 5 hp difference. I know I can't tell much of a difference when I drive a friends varioram car vs. my car. Maybe I am not as good as I think I am?

Dennis Mitsch

Well, let's see the chart!

Some stuff I always wonder every time I hear "we dyno'd it and it worked!":

What conditions? What car? Same car? Same day/time? No other modifications? How many runs? How many different cars were tested with identical modification? What's the range of error on a dyno, anyways? +/- 3 HP? Is that 5 rear wheel horsepower, or an estimated crank number? What kind of dyno was it, DynoJet or Mustang? Does it matter? Who owns the dyno, is it under your control or being beat on by dozens of different guys per week? Was the modified car tested first (before it was super hot) or after? Where did you see the 5 HP? 5 HP for a 10th of a second at redline isn't gonna be too useful. How about torque? Any difference there? Probably more I can't think of right now.

Maybe I'm going insane.

Dennis Mitsch (motorsound, BMC filter & RSR mufflers - sounds good, don't know about my 5 HP)
dem911@haphazard.com
993 FAQ/Knowledgebase - http://www.haphazard.com/993kb/ (with an unwritten dyno section, but obviously in dire need of one.)

Pete911air

Dennis,
I don't think you know anything abaud Dynos. I was talking about an engine dyno.The 5 hp. is not a flash reading. the rpm is held for 10 seconds. As for temperature it does not matter. That is wy you have a correction factor. Ask steve Weiner. He is a little more eloquent then me. Also Vicken knows we have a Dyno. ( Not everybody on this board makes up storys. )

Pete.

Tito

Just how big an increase in HP is needed to be felt and what sort of 0-60, or 50-70 does this equate to ?

Tito.

Dennis Mitsch

Oh, not only do I not know anything about dynos, I'm pretty much ignorant of just about everything. That's why I lurk instead of post! ha ha!

My bleet wasn't meant to imply any higgery jiggery on your part (besides, there isn't exactly any money to be made in selling sport airboxes. Unless they're made of carbon fiber, I guess), it was more a general "What does 'we saw it on the dyno' mean, anyways?"

Obviously an engine dyno is the most free of the hocus pocus that goes on in the aftermarket.

The chassis dyno numbers all seem to vary wildly and are quoted (by some) as gospel.

Or worse, "estimated crank horsepower" - ugh.

In any case, some of my questions do still apply:

Was it a stock motor with stock exhaust?
Was the increase seen across several motors?
What RPM range were the increases seen?

And you actually added and answered one I hadn't thought of:
Was it a flash reading or sustained? (which you answered, you saw the reading for 10 seconds.)

I'm trying to have the correct questions to ask when I hear the magic phrase, "we saw it on the dyno, give me your $200"

Dennis Mitsch - dem911@haphazard.com
993 FAQ/KB - http://www.haphazard.com/993kb/

Jim Sullivan

I don't think the 5HP is what's at issue here really, although I'll take an extra 5 anytime. I really think the 5HP provides a positive spin on wanting better engine sound without losing power, which can and does happen quite often when you modify something as factory tweeked as a Porsche.

As for what increase in power can you feel? Well with a 280HP engine (oh, sorry, that's 282), probably you'd notice 10 additional ponies, I'm not sure though.

Tito

LOL Jim....282

Doc Vorce

In a "Technical Note" in the 2000 June issue of EXCELLENCE, Bruce Anderson notes that "the 3.6-liter 911 engines (964 or 993)" have an "outer housing for the air cleaner [which is] restrictive." In experiments with "3.6 liter street cars," he discovered "that they could gain 6-8 horsepower" when the standard air box cover had holes drilled into it. Anderson's claims serve as sufficient confirmation of Pete911air's contention that the factory Motorsound package, with its modified air box lid, adds horsepower.

In a 993, the additional horsepower gained by adding the Motorsound package or simply the factory Performance Air Box Lid will only make itself apparent--if the horsepower makes itself obvious at all--at the limits of the engine's performance. Recall--and I am relying on figures provided in the 6th edition of Frere's PORSCHE 911 STORY--that while acceleration figures for non-varioram and narrow-bodied varioram 993s are virtually identical, the narrow-bodied varioram 993 has an increase in its maximum speed of 5.58 miles per hour. (By virtue of their increased weight and drag over the narrow-bodied 993s, wide-bodied 993s suffer a minor disadvantage in top speed performance.)

Tito

Food for thought, thanks Doc.

Tito

I got the airbox lid today (thanks Marven at AJUSA). I have just come back from a 120mile blast and I can't get the grin off of my face. . It is verging on criminal that these box lids are not standard ( I know noise regulations etc.). The noise from 4000 to 6000 is fantastic - I rated it before but it is, to me anyway, awesome now. As regards power it is difficult to be objective with a huge grin on my face but it did feel very marginally stronger at about 6000, but little different elsewhere noticably. The box is virtually as for stock, with extra holes. I would urge anyone that has not done this to either drills the holes or get the MS lid, but do it. Tito

pookee

Anyone mount the M159 option on a non Varioram 993?
How does it sound?

Todd

Will this produce the "turbine" sound like on the racer Ferrari 333sp, or Porsche Sp cars. That's the sound I'm after. Obviously not as distinct, but I like the turbine sound as apposed to the "gurgling"