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All 4S cars have big reds on them with the boost assist like the turbos. They came with 18" technology wheels too (also referred to as hollow spokes) The car was essentially a TT without the Turbo motor/turbos. the C2S did NOT have these features- unless ordered as options.
THESE were all included on the C4s as stock "Turbo Big Red Brakes & Rotors, Turbo Braking System, LSD standard, Turbo Suspension, 18” Turbo Wheels 285/225, Turbo AWD System."
Sorry but I disagree. I have Big Silver calipers on mine which I purchased new and are stated as a 4S part.
Per Excellence Magazine Porsche Buyers' Guide: "The (C2)S was a Turbo-look coupe, with bodywork and suspension derived from the 993 Turbo. However, it did not inherit the Turbo's "big red" brakes..."
I've always heard the Big Reds were standard on the 4S (and Turbo) and the silver (regular sized) calipers were standard on the C4 (which was a NB). Never heard of 'Big Silvers'.
the Carrera and Carrera S are mechanically talking perfectly the same.
They share the same basic configuration and the same optionals.
It is simple to describe the Carrera S as a widened version of 993 Carrera.
The turbo and 4S compared with Carrera & Carrera S, had different standard twists wheels (hollow on the turbo), had the sport chassis with different height and shock absorbers, different brake rotors, calipers and braking system, for the C07 market also a much richer standard config., with full leather interiors and rear wiper.
Thanks to the 4WD, the turbo, 4S and 4 models had also the ABS with 5 channels and ABD, which was option on the Carrera/Carrera S offered together with the code 220 for the LSD.
This system allows to brake the single wheel, independently one to the other, and it was developed by BOSCH for Porsche and BMW, which had a bad fame of being unsafe on the wet. (it is actually the Grandma of ESP)
People really underestimate the importance of Code 220 on a RWD 993.
To upgrade a car to that system, you need to install:
- the LSD
- the BOSCH brake Control unit
- change all the braking lines
- change the ABS/ABD pump
For all the above, done with brand new genuine porsche parts nowadays it is well about 15/18k.
if you go for a 4WD, you don't have to ask yourself if it is present, because it was standard.
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 12-12-2021 at 05:49 AM.
As this thread seems to be turning into a data-dump, here's a bit more technical data from many years ago from someone who clearly knows what they are talking about - again specifically for ROW cars, but are the US cars the same?
The C4S does not have the full turbo running gear.
Here's some detail, cribbed from Porsche Club GB forum:
Actually the C4S has the dampers from the M033 package (lowered chassis) and the springs are also M033 on the front and an exclusive refinement of the M033 rear springs with a rate of 36 N/mm. The anti-roll bars (20mm F / 18mm R) are standard C4 fodder, which practically means a thinner front anti-roll bar (compared to a std Carrera 2) to promote turn in and reduce under-steer. There is nothing about the suspension that compares with a turbo model.
The Carrera S (i.e. 2S) does not have the std suspension of the Carrera coupe, but again has largely the same components as the C4S and an ordinary model (c2/targa/cabriolet/c4 coupe/cabriolet) that was ordered with the factory M033 (lowered chassis) option which Porsche state clearly lowers the ride height by 20mm rear and 10mm front for a visual enhancement and does not increase the harshness of the ride at all, hence no increase in spring rate or damper rate, indeed the dampers are only part of the package to stop the short springs from dislocating on full droop by way of a reduced piston rod length. The anti-roll bars of the Carrera S model (21mm F / 18mm R) are the same as all other 2 wheel drive standard variants.
To achieve turbo like suspension on either model requires the optional M030 (sport chassis) to be fitted and even then you don't get the rear springs or rear anti-roll bar of a turbo model.
The brakes of the C4S are not lifted directly from the turbo model but rather follow the form of the four wheel-drive models with their hydraulic brake servo system as opposed to the 2 wheel drive models Vacuum servo. The discs and callipers / pads are taken from the turbo model, the rest is C4 with a further reduction in rear switch-over pressure from the C4's 45 bar to 40 bar for the C4S, the turbo is 55 bar and oddly enough the standard 2 wheel-drive models are 40 bar all with a reduction factor of .46 . The brakes feel more powerful because the pedal pressure is multiplied by a factor of 4.8:1 on all four wheel-drive variants and only 3.15:1 on two wheel-drive ones.
The RS model shares the C4 hydraulic system but with a reduction in pressure multiplication to a figure of 3.6:1, so evidently the development driver found the four wheel drive settings to be "over servoed".
I believe the "more planted" "less floaty" feel of the C4S model is directly attributed to the extra weight of the car and its extras and four wheel-drive hardware balancing the weight out more evenly between front and rear. I am sure all owners would agree a full tank of fuel and tyres with a generous tread depth soften the ride of our cars noticeably.
As this thread seems to be turning into a data-dump, here's a bit more technical data from many years ago from someone who clearly knows what they are talking about - again specifically for ROW cars, but are the US cars the same?
The C4S does not have the full turbo running gear.
Here's some detail, cribbed from Porsche Club GB forum:
Actually the C4S has the dampers from the M033 package (lowered chassis) and the springs are also M033 on the front and an exclusive refinement of the M033 rear springs with a rate of 36 N/mm. The anti-roll bars (20mm F / 18mm R) are standard C4 fodder, which practically means a thinner front anti-roll bar (compared to a std Carrera 2) to promote turn in and reduce under-steer. There is nothing about the suspension that compares with a turbo model.
The Carrera S (i.e. 2S) does not have the std suspension of the Carrera coupe, but again has largely the same components as the C4S and an ordinary model (c2/targa/cabriolet/c4 coupe/cabriolet) that was ordered with the factory M033 (lowered chassis) option which Porsche state clearly lowers the ride height by 20mm rear and 10mm front for a visual enhancement and does not increase the harshness of the ride at all, hence no increase in spring rate or damper rate, indeed the dampers are only part of the package to stop the short springs from dislocating on full droop by way of a reduced piston rod length. The anti-roll bars of the Carrera S model (21mm F / 18mm R) are the same as all other 2 wheel drive standard variants.
To achieve turbo like suspension on either model requires the optional M030 (sport chassis) to be fitted and even then you don't get the rear springs or rear anti-roll bar of a turbo model.
The brakes of the C4S are not lifted directly from the turbo model but rather follow the form of the four wheel-drive models with their hydraulic brake servo system as opposed to the 2 wheel drive models Vacuum servo. The discs and callipers / pads are taken from the turbo model, the rest is C4 with a further reduction in rear switch-over pressure from the C4's 45 bar to 40 bar for the C4S, the turbo is 55 bar and oddly enough the standard 2 wheel-drive models are 40 bar all with a reduction factor of .46 . The brakes feel more powerful because the pedal pressure is multiplied by a factor of 4.8:1 on all four wheel-drive variants and only 3.15:1 on two wheel-drive ones.
The RS model shares the C4 hydraulic system but with a reduction in pressure multiplication to a figure of 3.6:1, so evidently the development driver found the four wheel drive settings to be "over servoed".
I believe the "more planted" "less floaty" feel of the C4S model is directly attributed to the extra weight of the car and its extras and four wheel-drive hardware balancing the weight out more evenly between front and rear. I am sure all owners would agree a full tank of fuel and tyres with a generous tread depth soften the ride of our cars noticeably.
I am quite sure, for the row market, it was the M030 suspension, not the M033 which was the lowering option for the 993 cabriolet.
As this thread seems to be turning into a data-dump, here's a bit more technical data from many years ago from someone who clearly knows what they are talking about - again specifically for ROW cars, but are the US cars the same?
The C4S does not have the full turbo running gear.
Here's some detail, cribbed from Porsche Club GB forum:
Actually the C4S has the dampers from the M033 package (lowered chassis) and the springs are also M033 on the front and an exclusive refinement of the M033 rear springs with a rate of 36 N/mm. The anti-roll bars (20mm F / 18mm R) are standard C4 fodder, which practically means a thinner front anti-roll bar (compared to a std Carrera 2) to promote turn in and reduce under-steer. There is nothing about the suspension that compares with a turbo model.
The Carrera S (i.e. 2S) does not have the std suspension of the Carrera coupe, but again has largely the same components as the C4S and an ordinary model (c2/targa/cabriolet/c4 coupe/cabriolet) that was ordered with the factory M033 (lowered chassis) option which Porsche state clearly lowers the ride height by 20mm rear and 10mm front for a visual enhancement and does not increase the harshness of the ride at all, hence no increase in spring rate or damper rate, indeed the dampers are only part of the package to stop the short springs from dislocating on full droop by way of a reduced piston rod length. The anti-roll bars of the Carrera S model (21mm F / 18mm R) are the same as all other 2 wheel drive standard variants.
To achieve turbo like suspension on either model requires the optional M030 (sport chassis) to be fitted and even then you don't get the rear springs or rear anti-roll bar of a turbo model.
The brakes of the C4S are not lifted directly from the turbo model but rather follow the form of the four wheel-drive models with their hydraulic brake servo system as opposed to the 2 wheel drive models Vacuum servo. The discs and callipers / pads are taken from the turbo model, the rest is C4 with a further reduction in rear switch-over pressure from the C4's 45 bar to 40 bar for the C4S, the turbo is 55 bar and oddly enough the standard 2 wheel-drive models are 40 bar all with a reduction factor of .46 . The brakes feel more powerful because the pedal pressure is multiplied by a factor of 4.8:1 on all four wheel-drive variants and only 3.15:1 on two wheel-drive ones.
The RS model shares the C4 hydraulic system but with a reduction in pressure multiplication to a figure of 3.6:1, so evidently the development driver found the four wheel drive settings to be "over servoed".
I believe the "more planted" "less floaty" feel of the C4S model is directly attributed to the extra weight of the car and its extras and four wheel-drive hardware balancing the weight out more evenly between front and rear. I am sure all owners would agree a full tank of fuel and tyres with a generous tread depth soften the ride of our cars noticeably.
The brake system of the C4S is “identical” to the Turbo as confirmed by my Porsche Classic Contact in Stuttgart. Explain how the C4S is 40 Bar of pressure and 55 Bar of pressure for the Turbo? How is that being regulated within the same exact system? A different ABS Pump??? Never heard of this before. The parts are all the same in the PET. I am going to take this info back for for conformation / clarity.
The brake system of the C4S is “identical” to the Turbo as confirmed by my Porsche Classic Contact in Stuttgart. Explain how the C4S is 40 Bar of pressure and 55 Bar of pressure for the Turbo? How is that being regulated within the same exact system? A different ABS Pump??? Never heard of this before. The parts are all the same in the PET. I am going to take this info back for for conformation / clarity.
This info on ROW cars may or may not be correct. But I don't know why you keep shooting the 'as confirmed by my Porsche Classic Contact in Stuttgart' around. What do you mean by 'Confirmed'? I guess he must have worked in the factory when they were building the 993? What was his role?
As you seem to want to do some more research, here is the full post - the author is an ROW Porsche mechanic, and to be clear he works for Porsche, and has done for many years. Article from 2012.
Feel free to reach out and see if he stands by his statements. I've taken an image rather than cut & paste.
This info on ROW cars may or may not be correct. But I don't know why you keep shooting the 'as confirmed by my Porsche Classic Contact in Stuttgart' around. What do you mean by 'Confirmed'? I guess he must have worked in the factory when they were building the 993? What was his role?
Purchased my car from PORSCHE Classic and part of the Classic family and have connections to the the HQ in Stuttgart where they do frame off restoration from all generation of 911 up to 996, 959, 356 etc….. Yes in fact he was as others working there. The C4S Pump is the exact same as the Turbo pump how are there different pressures? Will see what I can find out. Also the C4S was lighter than the Turbo and the Turbo got stiffer springs in the rear than the C4S. The rear sway bar was 1mm more in diameter in the Turbo vs the C4S.
The new book Porsche 911 Type 993 The detailed guide 1993 - 1998. Auto Forever has all the answers. I’ve included photos of various pages answering all the questions. excellent resource!
Reference book Transmission US. 4S Braking system Suspension Brake caliper colors available.
12-11-2021, 05:23 PM
