Has my Porsche become a 'slug' ?
02-06-2003, 12:02 AM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Spinning Disc,
I completely disagree with you -- I think the 993 stands up very well even today, almost 9 years after it entered production and 5 years after production stopped. HP notwithstanding, few cars can run 0-60 times under 5 seconds even today, yet several magazines recorded sub-5 seconds for the 993. The braking figures and handling (skid pad and slalom) figures also compare very well with today's latest performance cars. Few, if any, of the newer cars that deliver comparable or better performance provide the overall build quality or the tactile and involving driving experience that makes a 993 so special, IMO.
You SUPERCHARGED your M-Coupe!! Of course it gave you a bigger shove! You should supercharge your 993 before you say it's not as visceral.
Since my 993's lease is approaching its end, I have been test driving cars. Most recently, I drove a 350Z and a new (E46) M3. The 350Z is very nice, but it's no 993. The M3 was very impressive, with a phenomenal 333 hp engine (assuming they're no longer blowing up). Yet, it still didn't feel as special as the 993.
A 993, or any car, doesn't become less desirable just because cars are getting faster. Is a '50s 300SL no longer desirable because a WRX is faster? I don't think so. The list of cars that can out-accelerate a Ferrari 246 Dino is huge, but the only ones I'd rather have are (some) Porsches. A 993 is very nearly as fast as a Ferrari Daytona flat out, and will out-accelerate it to about 100 mph -- is a Daytona now a slug? Not in my book.
There are very few cars that put the whole package of speed, handling, braking, quality, looks and driver involvement together so completely. The 993 is one of those rare cars, and it always will be no matter how much hp they shove into new cars.
I will probably buy out my lease and keep my 993.
I completely disagree with you -- I think the 993 stands up very well even today, almost 9 years after it entered production and 5 years after production stopped. HP notwithstanding, few cars can run 0-60 times under 5 seconds even today, yet several magazines recorded sub-5 seconds for the 993. The braking figures and handling (skid pad and slalom) figures also compare very well with today's latest performance cars. Few, if any, of the newer cars that deliver comparable or better performance provide the overall build quality or the tactile and involving driving experience that makes a 993 so special, IMO.
You SUPERCHARGED your M-Coupe!! Of course it gave you a bigger shove! You should supercharge your 993 before you say it's not as visceral.
Since my 993's lease is approaching its end, I have been test driving cars. Most recently, I drove a 350Z and a new (E46) M3. The 350Z is very nice, but it's no 993. The M3 was very impressive, with a phenomenal 333 hp engine (assuming they're no longer blowing up). Yet, it still didn't feel as special as the 993.
A 993, or any car, doesn't become less desirable just because cars are getting faster. Is a '50s 300SL no longer desirable because a WRX is faster? I don't think so. The list of cars that can out-accelerate a Ferrari 246 Dino is huge, but the only ones I'd rather have are (some) Porsches. A 993 is very nearly as fast as a Ferrari Daytona flat out, and will out-accelerate it to about 100 mph -- is a Daytona now a slug? Not in my book.
There are very few cars that put the whole package of speed, handling, braking, quality, looks and driver involvement together so completely. The 993 is one of those rare cars, and it always will be no matter how much hp they shove into new cars.
I will probably buy out my lease and keep my 993.
02-06-2003, 04:44 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
Few people emphasize a lot tradition and heritage of Porsche. It's all true. Still, it is the best affordable sportscar in the world. By my opinion best acid test to every street-legal car is Nyrburgring Nordscleife track time. It is kind a road-like natural track, about 20 km long. As You see Porsches dominate there totally.
<a href="http://www.track-challenge.com/topten1_e.asp" target="_blank">http://www.track-challenge.com/topten1_e.asp</a>
Car Time
1. TechArt GT street 7.43
2. Pagani Zonda S 7.44
3. Porsche GT2 (996) 7.46
4. Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 7.49
5. Lamborghini Murciélago 7.50
6. Porsche 911 Turbo (996) 7.56
7. Porsche 911 GT3 8.03
8. Lamborghini Diablo GT 8.04
9. Ferrari 575M Maranello 8.05
10. Ferrari 550 Maranello 8.07
Gemballa announced lately that they beat current time with Gemballa GTR 600 7:42,5 , so lets wait and look. <a href="http://www.gemballa.com/news/gtr6002.html" target="_blank">http://www.gemballa.com/news/gtr6002.html</a>
<a href="http://www.track-challenge.com/topten1_e.asp" target="_blank">http://www.track-challenge.com/topten1_e.asp</a>
Car Time
1. TechArt GT street 7.43
2. Pagani Zonda S 7.44
3. Porsche GT2 (996) 7.46
4. Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 7.49
5. Lamborghini Murciélago 7.50
6. Porsche 911 Turbo (996) 7.56
7. Porsche 911 GT3 8.03
8. Lamborghini Diablo GT 8.04
9. Ferrari 575M Maranello 8.05
10. Ferrari 550 Maranello 8.07
Gemballa announced lately that they beat current time with Gemballa GTR 600 7:42,5 , so lets wait and look. <a href="http://www.gemballa.com/news/gtr6002.html" target="_blank">http://www.gemballa.com/news/gtr6002.html</a>
02-06-2003, 08:23 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
For me, it is almost the lineage of the marque as well as the performance that I find appealing about the 993, as well as most 911's. This is purely from a design standpoint, not a status standpoint. Maybe this is old school, but I am not into the "flavor of the year" styling changes we see with almost every car manufacturer out there. I realize market dynamics demand a constant "refresh" at the low end but it just seems like so many car makers frantically search for an identity while the 911 stays relatively close to it's roots. Even some higher end makers have felt the need to stray from the tree (BMW-have they lost it or what??!!!). Owning a 911 means that my car has a family history as well as a family future.
02-06-2003, 10:17 AM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Durham, NC (Go Duke!)
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For what it's worth, there was a recent post reporting 993 0-60 times of 4.7-4.9 seconds.
My question is, what more do you need? That is INSANE! Yes, my friend's 500HP superformance cobra does it in 3.7, but so what? They're all fast, and nothing looks, feel, and sounds like this air-cooled beauty.
You can get more HP for less, sure, if that is what is important to you. But, in the end, I doubt you'll find a better total driving experience than a Porsche. Different, yes. Better?... I haven't.
My question is, what more do you need? That is INSANE! Yes, my friend's 500HP superformance cobra does it in 3.7, but so what? They're all fast, and nothing looks, feel, and sounds like this air-cooled beauty.
You can get more HP for less, sure, if that is what is important to you. But, in the end, I doubt you'll find a better total driving experience than a Porsche. Different, yes. Better?... I haven't.
02-06-2003, 12:19 PM
#36
Instructor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Speedraser:
life and cars is about the journey so much as it is about the car. by journey, i mean the process of buying different cars and finding their strengths and weaknesses, for many can be desk jockeys and run benchtop dyno's all day having never driven the cars.
i bought this 993 knowing in the back of my mind that perhaps it was not quite the keeper i wanted it to be. knowing that of all cars, it would hold its value better than almost any other car out there, so i found out, in the end, that this car was not the epitome of motoring, then i could turn it around and not get absolutely creamed.
it is fascinating to learn how to drive this car. but it is still not exactly where i want it to be in terms of structural rigidity (cab!), handling, and low end punch. it is fantastic once rolling, but there are things that i could choose to throw money at to get the car how i'd like it, OR....get a different car. and while i by no means mean to offend 993 lifers, i find the car lacks things that i still want in a car and have not found yet in this car. it is, after all, a personal preference.
people can point out the "total package" and the lineage and i agree that the car has all of that, but at the end of the day, that does not correct its deficiencies that i would like to address dynamically. i have spent far too much time tuning cars with afterOEM or OEM racing parts to get cars where i like them, so now my approach is to get a car out of the box as i like it. am actively searching. could be a 993tt. could be a 996tt.
life and cars is about the journey so much as it is about the car. by journey, i mean the process of buying different cars and finding their strengths and weaknesses, for many can be desk jockeys and run benchtop dyno's all day having never driven the cars.
i bought this 993 knowing in the back of my mind that perhaps it was not quite the keeper i wanted it to be. knowing that of all cars, it would hold its value better than almost any other car out there, so i found out, in the end, that this car was not the epitome of motoring, then i could turn it around and not get absolutely creamed.
it is fascinating to learn how to drive this car. but it is still not exactly where i want it to be in terms of structural rigidity (cab!), handling, and low end punch. it is fantastic once rolling, but there are things that i could choose to throw money at to get the car how i'd like it, OR....get a different car. and while i by no means mean to offend 993 lifers, i find the car lacks things that i still want in a car and have not found yet in this car. it is, after all, a personal preference.
people can point out the "total package" and the lineage and i agree that the car has all of that, but at the end of the day, that does not correct its deficiencies that i would like to address dynamically. i have spent far too much time tuning cars with afterOEM or OEM racing parts to get cars where i like them, so now my approach is to get a car out of the box as i like it. am actively searching. could be a 993tt. could be a 996tt.
02-06-2003, 01:28 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Spinning Disc,
I would think a TT, or a Carrera Coupe with a supercharger, would go a long way toward addressing the "shortcomings" of structural rigidity and torque. Happy hunting.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
I would think a TT, or a Carrera Coupe with a supercharger, would go a long way toward addressing the "shortcomings" of structural rigidity and torque. Happy hunting.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
02-08-2003, 01:56 AM
#38
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Speedraser:
[QB]
Since my 993's lease is approaching its end, I have been test driving cars. Most recently, I drove a 350Z and a new (E46) M3. The 350Z is very nice, but it's no 993. The M3 was very impressive, with a phenomenal 333 hp engine (assuming they're no longer blowing up). Yet, it still didn't feel as special as the 993.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">FWIW, the latest Road and Track tests the new Z, M3 SMGII, Corvette Z06 and 996. The impressive thing was that the Z had the slowest 0-60 time by nearly a second, yet was second fastest around the track, after the Z06. (M3 was 3rd) Draw your own conclusions about overall balance.
I say good job Nissan, the car even has some hips and curves, rare enough these days, even at Porsche.
I still wouldn't trade my 993 for anything else in it's price range, new or used.
[QB]
Since my 993's lease is approaching its end, I have been test driving cars. Most recently, I drove a 350Z and a new (E46) M3. The 350Z is very nice, but it's no 993. The M3 was very impressive, with a phenomenal 333 hp engine (assuming they're no longer blowing up). Yet, it still didn't feel as special as the 993.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">FWIW, the latest Road and Track tests the new Z, M3 SMGII, Corvette Z06 and 996. The impressive thing was that the Z had the slowest 0-60 time by nearly a second, yet was second fastest around the track, after the Z06. (M3 was 3rd) Draw your own conclusions about overall balance.
I say good job Nissan, the car even has some hips and curves, rare enough these days, even at Porsche.
I still wouldn't trade my 993 for anything else in it's price range, new or used.
02-08-2003, 02:26 AM
#39
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Ramon, CA
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you on the part about very few hips and curves on the cars of today PeterS. Although I have been seeing some of the concept cars from some of the manufacturers going back to the curviness. Even the latest spy shots of the 997 is going back to more traditional Porsche look, and I hope the final product will look good.
In fact if I ever did move away from the air cooled car like my 993, I would probably skip over the 996 and go straight to the 997. The 996 just doesn't have the look that I like (sorry 996 guys that's just personal preference to me). And like you PeterS, I would not trade my 993, unless maybe a 993 C2S/C4S or a TT.
In fact if I ever did move away from the air cooled car like my 993, I would probably skip over the 996 and go straight to the 997. The 996 just doesn't have the look that I like (sorry 996 guys that's just personal preference to me). And like you PeterS, I would not trade my 993, unless maybe a 993 C2S/C4S or a TT.
02-08-2003, 11:11 AM
#41
Instructor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree the package is decent. already said that. i think some of you n/a engine M64 993 guys are in denial about peaky power output, which is my main issue with the car.
