Renting a 993?
#31
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I don't have my 993 yet. But I do have a 997.2 C4S and another aircooled (88 930, not really a compare to a 993 though) among others. I've had my 997.2 since Feb 2012, it had 13,000 km when I bought it and now has about 39,000km. It's been a solid car with nothing but routine maintenance per the service manual. The 930 was sorted when I bought it but has required some breakdown work end of last year, the expense of which when spread over 2 years of ownership was about $1500/year + oil changes.
#32
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
"Modern and fast or old and slow".
Obviously not getting it...
The 993 will reward you in so many ways that a 997 or 996 simply can not. There are more "fast" cars than you can count. There is only one Porsche 993. There is a reason the 993 has received Icon status with so many accolades and Porsche number next and next and next that followed are just another in a long list of aging, depreciating cars.
Lastly, don't be fooled. While the 993 is not a stoplight racer, once in second gear a sorted example is anything but slow.
Obviously not getting it...
The 993 will reward you in so many ways that a 997 or 996 simply can not. There are more "fast" cars than you can count. There is only one Porsche 993. There is a reason the 993 has received Icon status with so many accolades and Porsche number next and next and next that followed are just another in a long list of aging, depreciating cars.
Lastly, don't be fooled. While the 993 is not a stoplight racer, once in second gear a sorted example is anything but slow.
#33
Three Wheelin'
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Some great insight. It blows my mind how tiny you are describing it! I've been in my buddy's 997 and 991 and definitely never felt it was mega compact.
My brother has an S2000 which might be closer in size. Like you said, I just gotta sit in one and get the full experience.
BTW, I see you used to have a 993 4S. Was it miles better than your coupe now? Is the premium worth the extra curves? Also did you suffer from the SAI issues? That's one of my biggest concerns is just how much maintenance I can expect. Reading through the forums, seems like I should expect a lot (anywhere from 5k - 15k/year?) compared to a 997. I just want to be able to take the car up to Maine or similar road trips without fear of getting stranded - but I totally understand I am dealing with a 25 year old car... so there's that.
My brother has an S2000 which might be closer in size. Like you said, I just gotta sit in one and get the full experience.
BTW, I see you used to have a 993 4S. Was it miles better than your coupe now? Is the premium worth the extra curves? Also did you suffer from the SAI issues? That's one of my biggest concerns is just how much maintenance I can expect. Reading through the forums, seems like I should expect a lot (anywhere from 5k - 15k/year?) compared to a 997. I just want to be able to take the car up to Maine or similar road trips without fear of getting stranded - but I totally understand I am dealing with a 25 year old car... so there's that.
I've driven my share of narrow body and wide body cars. They are both great. I prefer narrow for the driving experience and wide for the looks.
#34
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hi Mr Dega,
If you can't find one to rent you probably can find a Rennlist member here or a PCA member that will swing by let you drive their car while they ride shotgun and articulate the unique driving characteristics that explain the 993s loyal following.
The two cars you express an interest in provide radically different driving experiences. The 993 is for someone who enjoys an old-school compact sports car feel with adequate power, good handling, and a minimum of active driver aids intervening when pushed too far. It's is not ergonomic as the interior layout is from 1962. It is all about an all-involving driver experience. The newer cars feel a lot more powerful, are a lot bigger inside and out, and are a lot more comfortable for both the driver and the passenger giving up a little of the all-involving driver experience in the trade. A six-hour drive in a 993 may leave you a little saddle worn, not the case in a 996/997/991.
A 45 min. romp on back roads in a 993 will probably be more satisfying than in one of the newer cars.
Both cars have Bosch Motronic fuel injection, the 993 an earlier version that is much simpler in design but receives the reliability gained by not being mechanical. All 993 have onboard diagnostics, 1996-on cars have OBD-II with a very limited set of diagnostic codes involving the engine, HVAC, ABS, and one or two more modules that make diagnosing issues simpler, the later cars have hundreds if not over a thousand diagnostic codes covering a much greater number of modules.
Since the 993's engine does not have variable valve timing it gives one the wonderful feeling of the RPM winding up in power and sound as torque builds. The later cars with variable valve timing don't really wind up as they have maximum torque on tap from a few RPM above idle but by the numbers simply outperform the 993.
In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 out of warranty or w/o a service contract will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in physical access to components on the car to service, the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine, and other systems and a water cooling system that seems to need a good bit of service due to water leaks as it ages. These items reduce the number of items that one can service as DIY projects on the later cars.
Opinions, opinions, others may disagree,
Andy
If you can't find one to rent you probably can find a Rennlist member here or a PCA member that will swing by let you drive their car while they ride shotgun and articulate the unique driving characteristics that explain the 993s loyal following.
The two cars you express an interest in provide radically different driving experiences. The 993 is for someone who enjoys an old-school compact sports car feel with adequate power, good handling, and a minimum of active driver aids intervening when pushed too far. It's is not ergonomic as the interior layout is from 1962. It is all about an all-involving driver experience. The newer cars feel a lot more powerful, are a lot bigger inside and out, and are a lot more comfortable for both the driver and the passenger giving up a little of the all-involving driver experience in the trade. A six-hour drive in a 993 may leave you a little saddle worn, not the case in a 996/997/991.
A 45 min. romp on back roads in a 993 will probably be more satisfying than in one of the newer cars.
Both cars have Bosch Motronic fuel injection, the 993 an earlier version that is much simpler in design but receives the reliability gained by not being mechanical. All 993 have onboard diagnostics, 1996-on cars have OBD-II with a very limited set of diagnostic codes involving the engine, HVAC, ABS, and one or two more modules that make diagnosing issues simpler, the later cars have hundreds if not over a thousand diagnostic codes covering a much greater number of modules.
Since the 993's engine does not have variable valve timing it gives one the wonderful feeling of the RPM winding up in power and sound as torque builds. The later cars with variable valve timing don't really wind up as they have maximum torque on tap from a few RPM above idle but by the numbers simply outperform the 993.
In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 out of warranty or w/o a service contract will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in physical access to components on the car to service, the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine, and other systems and a water cooling system that seems to need a good bit of service due to water leaks as it ages. These items reduce the number of items that one can service as DIY projects on the later cars.
Opinions, opinions, others may disagree,
Andy
Last edited by pp000830; 02-25-2021 at 04:58 PM.
The following users liked this post:
misterdega (02-25-2021)
#35
Three Wheelin'
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hi Mr Dega,
If you can't find one to rent you probably can find a Rennlist member here or a PCA member that will swing by let you drive their car while they ride shotgun and articulate the unique driving characteristics that explain the 993s loyal following.
The two cars you express an interest in provide radically different driving experiences. The 993 is for someone who enjoys an old-school compact sports car feel with adequate power, good handling, and a minimum of active driver aids intervening when pushed too far. It's is not ergonomic as the interior layout is from 1962. It is all about an all-involving driver experience. The newer cars feel a lot more powerful, are a lot bigger inside and out, and are a lot more comfortable for both the driver and the passenger giving up a little of the all-involving driver experience in trade. A six-hour drive in a 993 may leave you a little saddle worn, not the case in a 996/997/991.
Both cars have Bosch Motronic fuel injection, the 993 an earlier version that is much simpler in design but also receives the reliability gained by not being mechanical. 1996-on cars have OBD-II diagnostics that make diagnosing issues simpler and with only a few dozen engine-related codes easy to sort out. Since the 993 does not have variable valve timing it gives one the wonderful feeling of the RPM winding up in power and sound as torque builds. The later cars with variable valve timing don't really wind up as they have maximum torque on tap from a few RPM above idle. In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in access to components to service and the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine and other systems.
Andy
If you can't find one to rent you probably can find a Rennlist member here or a PCA member that will swing by let you drive their car while they ride shotgun and articulate the unique driving characteristics that explain the 993s loyal following.
The two cars you express an interest in provide radically different driving experiences. The 993 is for someone who enjoys an old-school compact sports car feel with adequate power, good handling, and a minimum of active driver aids intervening when pushed too far. It's is not ergonomic as the interior layout is from 1962. It is all about an all-involving driver experience. The newer cars feel a lot more powerful, are a lot bigger inside and out, and are a lot more comfortable for both the driver and the passenger giving up a little of the all-involving driver experience in trade. A six-hour drive in a 993 may leave you a little saddle worn, not the case in a 996/997/991.
Both cars have Bosch Motronic fuel injection, the 993 an earlier version that is much simpler in design but also receives the reliability gained by not being mechanical. 1996-on cars have OBD-II diagnostics that make diagnosing issues simpler and with only a few dozen engine-related codes easy to sort out. Since the 993 does not have variable valve timing it gives one the wonderful feeling of the RPM winding up in power and sound as torque builds. The later cars with variable valve timing don't really wind up as they have maximum torque on tap from a few RPM above idle. In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in access to components to service and the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine and other systems.
Andy
I was surprised to find I felt better than I do after a long day in my Audi.
Last edited by Tlaloc75; 02-25-2021 at 04:31 PM.
#36
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I did 4 hours in my 993 right after buying it. Was very comfortable. More so than my particular previous 997.2 (the sport seats squished my shoulders)
The following users liked this post:
misterdega (02-25-2021)
#37
Three Wheelin'
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
In my experience the 993 is a fantastic long distance road car. I drove a big chunk of the country over two long days and emerged from the car feeling refreshed at the end of each day. Maybe all the nvh translates into a back and leg massage!
I was surprised to find I felt better than I do after a long day in my Audi.
I was surprised to find I felt better than I do after a long day in my Audi.
#38
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Some great insight. It blows my mind how tiny you are describing it! I've been in my buddy's 997 and 991 and definitely never felt it was mega compact.
My brother has an S2000 which might be closer in size. Like you said, I just gotta sit in one and get the full experience.
BTW, I see you used to have a 993 4S. Was it miles better than your coupe now? Is the premium worth the extra curves? Also did you suffer from the SAI issues? That's one of my biggest concerns is just how much maintenance I can expect. Reading through the forums, seems like I should expect a lot (anywhere from 5k - 15k/year?) compared to a 997. I just want to be able to take the car up to Maine or similar road trips without fear of getting stranded - but I totally understand I am dealing with a 25 year old car... so there's that.
My brother has an S2000 which might be closer in size. Like you said, I just gotta sit in one and get the full experience.
BTW, I see you used to have a 993 4S. Was it miles better than your coupe now? Is the premium worth the extra curves? Also did you suffer from the SAI issues? That's one of my biggest concerns is just how much maintenance I can expect. Reading through the forums, seems like I should expect a lot (anywhere from 5k - 15k/year?) compared to a 997. I just want to be able to take the car up to Maine or similar road trips without fear of getting stranded - but I totally understand I am dealing with a 25 year old car... so there's that.
993s (or to the same extent 964s and earlier Carreras) are addictive. The air-cooled sound is intoxicating and simply can't be had anywhere else (OK, perhaps a VW bug). The metal-on-metal 'clunk' when you open and close the doors... Its looks are breathe-taking (WB and NB), there is no angle from which the car looks bad. It's imperfection (you'd notice the driver's seat and the steering wheel are not sync up, the outside mirrors are shaped and placed differently left vs right, the barely there A/C, the smell of the oil embedded in the leather seats...) only adds character. We can go on-&-on...
SAI issues can happen but it's not a foregone conclusion. And it's not like it will happen overnight. You'll see warning signs (i.e. gradually increasing oil consumption) and (more knowledgeable members can speak to this) over time, folks seem to discover that top end isn't always a must. And the silver lining is that you'll get back what you pay for, should you need to pay for a rebuild, as cars w/ top end done by reputable shops command higher prices.
As to maintenance, in general most years are nothing more than oil change, but every few years it can be costly. Again, major issues, when fixed, will be rewarded at sale time or will provide you with years of relatively fuss-free driving enjoyment.
Last but not least, 993s don't depreciate. Try that on 911s produced after 1998 (unless it's a Turbo, GT2/3, speedster...).
Last edited by mdude; 02-25-2021 at 04:55 PM.
The following users liked this post:
misterdega (02-25-2021)
#39
Three Wheelin'
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Many good insights here.
993s (or to the same extent 964s and earlier Carreras) are addictive. The air-cooled sound is intoxicating and simply can't be had anywhere else (OK, perhaps a VW bug). The metal-on-metal 'clunk' when you open and close the doors... Its looks are breathe-taking (WB and NB), there is no angle from which the car looks bad. It's imperfection (you'd notice the driver's seat and the steering wheel are not sync up, the outside mirrors are shaped and placed differently left vs right, the barely there A/C, the smell of the oil embedded in the leather seats...) only adds character. We can go on-&-on...
SAI issues can happen but it's not a foregone conclusion. And it's not like it will happen overnight. You'll see warning signs (i.e. gradually increasing oil consumption) and (more knowledgeable members can speak to this) over time, folks seem to discover that top end isn't always a must. And the silver lining is that you'll get back what you pay for, should you need to pay for a rebuild, as cars w/ top end done by reputable shops command higher prices.
As to maintenance, in general most years are nothing more than oil change, but every few years it can be costly. Again, major issues, when fixed, will be rewarded at sale time or will provide you with years of relatively fuss-free driving enjoyment.
Last but not least, 993s don't depreciate. Try that on 911s produced after 1998 (unless it's a Turbo, GT2/3, speedster...).
993s (or to the same extent 964s and earlier Carreras) are addictive. The air-cooled sound is intoxicating and simply can't be had anywhere else (OK, perhaps a VW bug). The metal-on-metal 'clunk' when you open and close the doors... Its looks are breathe-taking (WB and NB), there is no angle from which the car looks bad. It's imperfection (you'd notice the driver's seat and the steering wheel are not sync up, the outside mirrors are shaped and placed differently left vs right, the barely there A/C, the smell of the oil embedded in the leather seats...) only adds character. We can go on-&-on...
SAI issues can happen but it's not a foregone conclusion. And it's not like it will happen overnight. You'll see warning signs (i.e. gradually increasing oil consumption) and (more knowledgeable members can speak to this) over time, folks seem to discover that top end isn't always a must. And the silver lining is that you'll get back what you pay for, should you need to pay for a rebuild, as cars w/ top end done by reputable shops command higher prices.
As to maintenance, in general most years are nothing more than oil change, but every few years it can be costly. Again, major issues, when fixed, will be rewarded at sale time or will provide you with years of relatively fuss-free driving enjoyment.
Last but not least, 993s don't depreciate. Try that on 911s produced after 1998 (unless it's a Turbo, GT2/3, speedster...).
#40
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
My 993 has over 130k miles and I would drive it anywhere. Dead reliable. Once sorted (mostly suspension in my case) it's only needed regular maintenance, which has mostly consistent of oil and tires. Probably a tad less than $1k per year.
I've driven my share of narrow body and wide body cars. They are both great. I prefer narrow for the driving experience and wide for the looks.
I've driven my share of narrow body and wide body cars. They are both great. I prefer narrow for the driving experience and wide for the looks.
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hi Mr Dega,
If you can't find one to rent you probably can find a Rennlist member here or a PCA member that will swing by let you drive their car while they ride shotgun and articulate the unique driving characteristics that explain the 993s loyal following.
The two cars you express an interest in provide radically different driving experiences. The 993 is for someone who enjoys an old-school compact sports car feel with adequate power, good handling, and a minimum of active driver aids intervening when pushed too far. It's is not ergonomic as the interior layout is from 1962. It is all about an all-involving driver experience. The newer cars feel a lot more powerful, are a lot bigger inside and out, and are a lot more comfortable for both the driver and the passenger giving up a little of the all-involving driver experience in the trade. A six-hour drive in a 993 may leave you a little saddle worn, not the case in a 996/997/991.
A 45 min. romp on back roads in a 993 will probably be more satisfying than in one of the newer cars.
Both cars have Bosch Motronic fuel injection, the 993 an earlier version that is much simpler in design but receives the reliability gained by not being mechanical. All 993 have onboard diagnostics, 1996-on cars have OBD-II with a very limited set of diagnostic codes involving the engine, HVAC, ABS, and one or two more modules that make diagnosing issues simpler, the later cars have hundreds if not over a thousand diagnostic codes covering a much greater number of modules.
Since the 993's engine does not have variable valve timing it gives one the wonderful feeling of the RPM winding up in power and sound as torque builds. The later cars with variable valve timing don't really wind up as they have maximum torque on tap from a few RPM above idle but by the numbers simply outperform the 993.
In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 out of warranty or w/o a service contract will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in physical access to components on the car to service, the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine, and other systems and a water cooling system that seems to need a good bit of service due to water leaks as it ages. These items reduce the number of items that one can service as DIY projects on the later cars.
Opinions, opinions, others may disagree,
Andy
If you can't find one to rent you probably can find a Rennlist member here or a PCA member that will swing by let you drive their car while they ride shotgun and articulate the unique driving characteristics that explain the 993s loyal following.
The two cars you express an interest in provide radically different driving experiences. The 993 is for someone who enjoys an old-school compact sports car feel with adequate power, good handling, and a minimum of active driver aids intervening when pushed too far. It's is not ergonomic as the interior layout is from 1962. It is all about an all-involving driver experience. The newer cars feel a lot more powerful, are a lot bigger inside and out, and are a lot more comfortable for both the driver and the passenger giving up a little of the all-involving driver experience in the trade. A six-hour drive in a 993 may leave you a little saddle worn, not the case in a 996/997/991.
A 45 min. romp on back roads in a 993 will probably be more satisfying than in one of the newer cars.
Both cars have Bosch Motronic fuel injection, the 993 an earlier version that is much simpler in design but receives the reliability gained by not being mechanical. All 993 have onboard diagnostics, 1996-on cars have OBD-II with a very limited set of diagnostic codes involving the engine, HVAC, ABS, and one or two more modules that make diagnosing issues simpler, the later cars have hundreds if not over a thousand diagnostic codes covering a much greater number of modules.
Since the 993's engine does not have variable valve timing it gives one the wonderful feeling of the RPM winding up in power and sound as torque builds. The later cars with variable valve timing don't really wind up as they have maximum torque on tap from a few RPM above idle but by the numbers simply outperform the 993.
In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 out of warranty or w/o a service contract will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in physical access to components on the car to service, the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine, and other systems and a water cooling system that seems to need a good bit of service due to water leaks as it ages. These items reduce the number of items that one can service as DIY projects on the later cars.
Opinions, opinions, others may disagree,
Andy
#42
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by pp000830
In the long run, owning a 996/997/991 out of warranty or w/o a service contract will be substantially more expensive to own because of the greater difficulty in physical access to components on the car to service, the vastly larger number of and more complex operations of the engine, and other systems and a water cooling system that seems to need a good bit of service due to water leaks as it ages. These items reduce the number of items that one can service as DIY projects on the later cars.
Opinions, opinions, others may disagree,
Andy
Opinions, opinions, others may disagree,
Andy
The following users liked this post:
Porsche cowboy (02-25-2021)
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
In my experience the 993 is a fantastic long distance road car. I drove a big chunk of the country over two long days and emerged from the car feeling refreshed at the end of each day. Maybe all the nvh translates into a back and leg massage!
I was surprised to find I felt better than I do after a long day in my Audi.
I was surprised to find I felt better than I do after a long day in my Audi.
#44
Three Wheelin'
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
They can get expensive if neglected, but that's true of any older car. I have an old Vanagon that I put a similar amount of miles on and I've spent 2-3x more on that than on the Porsche. The other thing that comes up is that some of the regular maintenance can be expensive - especially if you try to get dealer service or have an expensive indy.
Twin plugs and hard to access wires, so when that needs doing, it takes some time. Rare service though. Once done, you are set for a while.
Oil changes take a lot longer than standard because of the twin filters and sumps and you need a lot of oil. I do oil changes myself which keeps the price down to a couple hundred.
Suspension, if not already done, costs some money. I spent 10k and did most of the work myself. That's needed once every 25 years though, so once you do it, you are set for a long time. Get one that's already been done if you can. Original rubber and shocks are going to be shot by now, even if the seller doesn't realize it.
If you get a car that's been taken care of, you won't have much in the way of unexpected expense. If you buy a car that has deferred maintenance, it'll add up quick. You can price it in, but I found most sellers don't like to think about it that way for some reason. They sometimes want to avoid doing the maintenance, pass it off to the seller, but not discount to account for that cost. Go figure. A good PPI can help you argue your point.
The following users liked this post:
misterdega (02-25-2021)
#45
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
For what its worth, my 993 is considerably more reliable and durable than my 997. 993’s are probably the last cars designed and built to last forever.
When you buy an older car, it’s inevitable there will be some sorting out, and its rarely cheap. Once resolved, air cooled cars are pretty reasonable to maintain.
When you buy an older car, it’s inevitable there will be some sorting out, and its rarely cheap. Once resolved, air cooled cars are pretty reasonable to maintain.
Last edited by mhm993; 02-25-2021 at 06:49 PM.
The following users liked this post:
misterdega (02-25-2021)