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05-10-2002, 01:12 PM
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Long time lurker, first time poster
Hello guys,
Firstly, I'm amazed by the wealth of knowledge on this site (and p-car.com!), its sure to be very helpful in the future.
I have just upgraded my Turbo'd Nissan to a '97 993 C2S. The car is great, only 28,000 miles and immaculate inside and out...the only downside, IMO, is that it has 17" Cup Style wheels. I am looking to change these for 18" (Turbo or RS style) at some point but was wondering if there is anything I should look out for. Offsets, unsprung weight etc...
Are there any pitfalls I should look out for and is it worth paying the extra for some original Turbo wheels or would I be better off paying less and drinking what I saved?
Any help/advise appreciated!
Thanks,
Firstly, I'm amazed by the wealth of knowledge on this site (and p-car.com!), its sure to be very helpful in the future.
I have just upgraded my Turbo'd Nissan to a '97 993 C2S. The car is great, only 28,000 miles and immaculate inside and out...the only downside, IMO, is that it has 17" Cup Style wheels. I am looking to change these for 18" (Turbo or RS style) at some point but was wondering if there is anything I should look out for. Offsets, unsprung weight etc...
Are there any pitfalls I should look out for and is it worth paying the extra for some original Turbo wheels or would I be better off paying less and drinking what I saved?
Any help/advise appreciated!
Thanks,
05-10-2002, 01:31 PM
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I thought I would wait a while and see if I got used to them.....not sure though....I'll need to see how much they are first as I've only just picked the car up!
Cheers
Cheers
05-10-2002, 02:18 PM
#4
Congratulations on the best automotive decision ever!
In terms of wheels, my 993 C2 (with the factory sports suspension) came with 17 inch cups. After much umming and ahhing, I decided to put 18s on the car and went for the Tramont replica RS style wheels.
The 18s look fantastic IMHO (and so they should at over £2,000!).
There is a downside however. The 18s give better grip on cornering undoubtedly but it was already very very good on the 17s.
The 18s provide less feel for whats going on and tramline more. They will hang on for longer on a bend, but if they let go you've got no chance unless you've got the reactions of a formula one driver.
Around London roads, the 18s with their lower profile (coupled with sports suspension) are a lot harsher in ride.
The steering feel is much much better on the 17s - if you go over something, you can feel what the wheels and car is doing - the 18s provide nowhere near as much feel.
I swop over from the 17s to 18s and vice versa from time to time - and use 17s for the track.
IMO the trade off is between the sheer feel of the steering and on the other hand wonderful looks.
Nice problem to have i guess.
In terms of wheels, my 993 C2 (with the factory sports suspension) came with 17 inch cups. After much umming and ahhing, I decided to put 18s on the car and went for the Tramont replica RS style wheels.
The 18s look fantastic IMHO (and so they should at over £2,000!).
There is a downside however. The 18s give better grip on cornering undoubtedly but it was already very very good on the 17s.
The 18s provide less feel for whats going on and tramline more. They will hang on for longer on a bend, but if they let go you've got no chance unless you've got the reactions of a formula one driver.
Around London roads, the 18s with their lower profile (coupled with sports suspension) are a lot harsher in ride.
The steering feel is much much better on the 17s - if you go over something, you can feel what the wheels and car is doing - the 18s provide nowhere near as much feel.
I swop over from the 17s to 18s and vice versa from time to time - and use 17s for the track.
IMO the trade off is between the sheer feel of the steering and on the other hand wonderful looks.
Nice problem to have i guess.
05-10-2002, 02:36 PM
#5
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[quote]Originally posted by Singh:
<strong>Congratulations on the best automotive decision ever!
The 18s provide less feel for whats going on and tramline more. They will hang on for longer on a bend, but if they let go you've got no chance unless you've got the reactions of a formula one driver.
The steering feel is much much better on the 17s - if you go over something, you can feel what the wheels and car is doing - the 18s provide nowhere near as much feel.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you comparing the wheels with the same tires?? Your statements seem almost opposite of what I have found.
18's should give more road feel and better response due to the smaller, stiffer sidewall.
Never found the 18's to be "uncatchable" compared to the 17's. If you screw up with either set up you can be along for the ride. The lower profile of the 18's do raise your effective spring rate and therefore it may break away with less notice.
The tramlining shouldn't be a function of wheel diameter but more of tire width and alignment. Can't see how changing from 17 to 18 (given same tire width and type) would affect this.
Greg
<strong>Congratulations on the best automotive decision ever!
The 18s provide less feel for whats going on and tramline more. They will hang on for longer on a bend, but if they let go you've got no chance unless you've got the reactions of a formula one driver.
The steering feel is much much better on the 17s - if you go over something, you can feel what the wheels and car is doing - the 18s provide nowhere near as much feel.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you comparing the wheels with the same tires?? Your statements seem almost opposite of what I have found.
18's should give more road feel and better response due to the smaller, stiffer sidewall.
Never found the 18's to be "uncatchable" compared to the 17's. If you screw up with either set up you can be along for the ride. The lower profile of the 18's do raise your effective spring rate and therefore it may break away with less notice.
The tramlining shouldn't be a function of wheel diameter but more of tire width and alignment. Can't see how changing from 17 to 18 (given same tire width and type) would affect this.
Greg
05-10-2002, 02:43 PM
#6
Greg
I have the same (Continental N rated) tyres on both my 17s and 18s. The 18s obviously have more contact with the road but what i meant by feel was the feedback i get via the steering wheel of what is going on on the road. I find it far better on my 17s.
I agree with your view on 18s letting go with less notice - again, you get a better feel for what the car is doing with the 17s - in this instance, if its sliding to the point of possibly letting go.
I guess tyre pressures also make a difference and we can throw it into the cauldron too!
Subjective things eh?
I have the same (Continental N rated) tyres on both my 17s and 18s. The 18s obviously have more contact with the road but what i meant by feel was the feedback i get via the steering wheel of what is going on on the road. I find it far better on my 17s.
I agree with your view on 18s letting go with less notice - again, you get a better feel for what the car is doing with the 17s - in this instance, if its sliding to the point of possibly letting go.
I guess tyre pressures also make a difference and we can throw it into the cauldron too!
Subjective things eh?
05-10-2002, 02:51 PM
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Singh,
Your findings just suprise me and kind of go against conventional wisdom.
I did some test back to back with 17 and 18 inch Hoosiers (R compound race tires) and found the 17's to be more vague on turn in and they took a double set in the turns. The 18's were much stiffer and more precise. I tried to keep as many variables as constant but it was far from a scientific experiement.
I keept pressures the same, suspension setting same, driver and conditions the same. Wheels were different manufactures but same widths.
Thanks for the info.
Greg
Your findings just suprise me and kind of go against conventional wisdom.
I did some test back to back with 17 and 18 inch Hoosiers (R compound race tires) and found the 17's to be more vague on turn in and they took a double set in the turns. The 18's were much stiffer and more precise. I tried to keep as many variables as constant but it was far from a scientific experiement.
I keept pressures the same, suspension setting same, driver and conditions the same. Wheels were different manufactures but same widths.
Thanks for the info.
Greg
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05-10-2002, 03:41 PM
#8
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Let me chime in with a different opinion. I love the 17" Cup 2 wheels.. don't ask me why, I just do. My garage is full of wheels and tires, six sets currently not on cars and a couple spare sets of slicks too (sound like your garage, Greg?) 
, so I wouldn't hesitate to buy a different set of wheels, but I really like the 993 on the street with the 17's.
Perhaps, Singh, what you are really saying is that the smaller, narrower tires are more playful on the street, where maximum performance threshholds are not approachable as on the track. And certainly I would agree that "on-center" feel and suppleness will be better with a narrower tire. I agree that wheel size is a minor issue (you do get a longer and therefore bigger footprint with a bigger wheel after all, kinda like the difference between a pair of Nike size 9's and size 12's), but the less stick, the bigger the slip angle, and perhaps?? the more road feel you get.
, so I wouldn't hesitate to buy a different set of wheels, but I really like the 993 on the street with the 17's. Perhaps, Singh, what you are really saying is that the smaller, narrower tires are more playful on the street, where maximum performance threshholds are not approachable as on the track. And certainly I would agree that "on-center" feel and suppleness will be better with a narrower tire. I agree that wheel size is a minor issue (you do get a longer and therefore bigger footprint with a bigger wheel after all, kinda like the difference between a pair of Nike size 9's and size 12's), but the less stick, the bigger the slip angle, and perhaps?? the more road feel you get.
05-10-2002, 03:58 PM
#9
Ross:
If the car hasn't been lowered, you may wish to try this before moving up to 18s. I've got the 17 inch Cup wheels on my car, and it has been lowered. Looks great and handles wonderfully. Plus, it's cheaper than buying new wheels and tires.
Living in Toronto, with it's wonderful, frost-heaved pavement, 18 inch wheels are, in my opinion, a bit impractical. But hey, my BMW has 16 inchers on it so the 17s on the 993 look downright buff in comparison!
If the car hasn't been lowered, you may wish to try this before moving up to 18s. I've got the 17 inch Cup wheels on my car, and it has been lowered. Looks great and handles wonderfully. Plus, it's cheaper than buying new wheels and tires.
Living in Toronto, with it's wonderful, frost-heaved pavement, 18 inch wheels are, in my opinion, a bit impractical. But hey, my BMW has 16 inchers on it so the 17s on the 993 look downright buff in comparison!
05-10-2002, 04:00 PM
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I have tried 17" standard and 18" turbo style on stock suspension.
IMHO
I found the 17" a smoother softer ride with a large amount of steering movement. Very comfortable.
The 18" turbo is a much harder ride, especially on the local roads, where you could really feel the smallest of bumps. Personally Im okay with that. And they sure look Cool!!!
Both stuck to the road, so no issues there.
Also, I understand that turbo style are available in 17". Thereafter, you could lower the suspension if you wanted.
EDIT: Enjoy. Plenty of time to modify.
IMHO
I found the 17" a smoother softer ride with a large amount of steering movement. Very comfortable.
The 18" turbo is a much harder ride, especially on the local roads, where you could really feel the smallest of bumps. Personally Im okay with that. And they sure look Cool!!!
Both stuck to the road, so no issues there.
Also, I understand that turbo style are available in 17". Thereafter, you could lower the suspension if you wanted.
EDIT: Enjoy. Plenty of time to modify.
05-10-2002, 05:06 PM
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Ross, if you plan to go to 18's, make sure you get the 65mm offset wheels for the rear since your car came with a factory spacer in the rear. Or you can get the heavier 40mm offset and remove the spacers. Either will work.
05-10-2002, 06:33 PM
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Hi Burnham,
Check out <a href="http://www.jasmine-motorsport.co.uk/" target="_blank">Jasmine Motorsport</a> if you are looking for a supplier, you can trade in your 17" wheels to ease the wallet burden a bit.
Check out <a href="http://www.jasmine-motorsport.co.uk/" target="_blank">Jasmine Motorsport</a> if you are looking for a supplier, you can trade in your 17" wheels to ease the wallet burden a bit.
05-11-2002, 01:34 AM
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My humble preference is towards the 17" cup wheels. I love how these look, especially on a ROW 030 lowered car. I've never been too crazy about the turbo twist, but that's just my opinion.
Bottom line, choose what you like - either way you can't go wrong.
Bottom line, choose what you like - either way you can't go wrong.
05-11-2002, 05:57 PM
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Welcome, Burnham,
I, too, have a '97 Carrera S. It came with hollow-spoke 18" wheels, but I'm looking for a set of 17" Cups for the track. Let me know if you ever want to part with them. We look forward to seeing you on the board!
Will
I, too, have a '97 Carrera S. It came with hollow-spoke 18" wheels, but I'm looking for a set of 17" Cups for the track. Let me know if you ever want to part with them. We look forward to seeing you on the board!
Will
05-12-2002, 11:35 PM
#15
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[quote]Originally posted by Matt Vaughan:
<strong>Ross, if you plan to go to 18's, make sure you get the 65mm offset wheels for the rear since your car came with a factory spacer in the rear. Or you can get the heavier 40mm offset and remove the spacers. Either will work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wait a minute...you mean I can use the 40mm offest rears on my narrowbody just by removing some spacers that have been put there by the factory?? I've been searching for 65mm rear offset 18" hollow spoke technology wheels (used) but have had a very hard time finding them in that offset...you can easily get 40mm offsets. Also, are the 40mm offsets heavier than the 65mm? If so, do you know by how much? If I can remove spacers and go with 40mm on the rear, would there be any negatives to doing that as opposed to leaving the spacers on and using the 65mm? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Ross, if you plan to go to 18's, make sure you get the 65mm offset wheels for the rear since your car came with a factory spacer in the rear. Or you can get the heavier 40mm offset and remove the spacers. Either will work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wait a minute...you mean I can use the 40mm offest rears on my narrowbody just by removing some spacers that have been put there by the factory?? I've been searching for 65mm rear offset 18" hollow spoke technology wheels (used) but have had a very hard time finding them in that offset...you can easily get 40mm offsets. Also, are the 40mm offsets heavier than the 65mm? If so, do you know by how much? If I can remove spacers and go with 40mm on the rear, would there be any negatives to doing that as opposed to leaving the spacers on and using the 65mm? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">