993TT For Sale + Pictures
03-19-2002, 08:22 PM
#31
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EJ,
I am not sure what a Cup car weighs but I would guess 2600#. They have 315 hp and I have heard people say that for every 100lbs you lose you essentially gain 10hp. If that is true the 600# weight difference is only worth 60hp for a total of 375. The ZO6 has 400hp stock, so the Cup car is at the short end. Another thing the Z06 has in its advantage is its aerodynamics, they have a much slimmer profile and that pays big dividends at 100+mph.
Having said that if I had to choose between the two it would be a very easy decision. Cup car all the way!
Greg
I am not sure what a Cup car weighs but I would guess 2600#. They have 315 hp and I have heard people say that for every 100lbs you lose you essentially gain 10hp. If that is true the 600# weight difference is only worth 60hp for a total of 375. The ZO6 has 400hp stock, so the Cup car is at the short end. Another thing the Z06 has in its advantage is its aerodynamics, they have a much slimmer profile and that pays big dividends at 100+mph.
Having said that if I had to choose between the two it would be a very easy decision. Cup car all the way!
Greg
03-20-2002, 10:35 AM
#32
Instructor
Roger, You are absolutely justified in taking me to task in your response. I've since been all over the web looking unsuccessfully for Z06 times posted at events at Watkin's Glen, arguably a high speed track and where I had my run-in with 2 Z06's, because I hate posts like mine that infer an absolute based upon very limited exposure, and I hoped to defend myself on the Z06 vs. 993.
Additionally, I was comparing my car to what was probably a dead stock Z06, and me with much larger than stock wheels and fresh Hoosier rubber on 9's and 11.5's with a 12" footprint in back, upgraded brakes/track pads and a Motorsports suspension that was not offered by Porsche OEM.
Let me also state that magazines, especially Car and Driver which did the Z06 vs. 996TT feature that keeps coming up, are worthless for estimating real-world results.. they are politically/economically/ motivated eyewash (Car and Driver now admits that, for years, it fabricated Letters to Editors). Even they have been inconsistent reporting on the Z06. I can remember a subsequent article that criticized it for being tail-happy at the track.
In the spirit of preaching to the choir, this is a 993 board, many of which can now be purchased for less than a new Z06. And the neat thing about 993's is that you can readily make them a whole lot faster at track duty with established and reasonable aftermarket stuff, have fun in the process, and ultimately come up with a car that at least will not be embarrassed by the Z06.
Additionally, I was comparing my car to what was probably a dead stock Z06, and me with much larger than stock wheels and fresh Hoosier rubber on 9's and 11.5's with a 12" footprint in back, upgraded brakes/track pads and a Motorsports suspension that was not offered by Porsche OEM.
Let me also state that magazines, especially Car and Driver which did the Z06 vs. 996TT feature that keeps coming up, are worthless for estimating real-world results.. they are politically/economically/ motivated eyewash (Car and Driver now admits that, for years, it fabricated Letters to Editors). Even they have been inconsistent reporting on the Z06. I can remember a subsequent article that criticized it for being tail-happy at the track.
In the spirit of preaching to the choir, this is a 993 board, many of which can now be purchased for less than a new Z06. And the neat thing about 993's is that you can readily make them a whole lot faster at track duty with established and reasonable aftermarket stuff, have fun in the process, and ultimately come up with a car that at least will not be embarrassed by the Z06.
03-20-2002, 02:31 PM
#33
Instructor
Thread Starter
[quote]Originally posted by Jim Sullivan:
<strong>Roger, You are absolutely justified in taking me to task in your response. I've since been all over the web looking unsuccessfully for Z06 times posted at events at Watkin's Glen, arguably a high speed track and where I had my run-in with 2 Z06's, because I hate posts like mine that infer an absolute based upon very limited exposure, and I hoped to defend myself on the Z06 vs. 993.
Additionally, I was comparing my car to what was probably a dead stock Z06, and me with much larger than stock wheels and fresh Hoosier rubber on 9's and 11.5's with a 12" footprint in back, upgraded brakes/track pads and a Motorsports suspension that was not offered by Porsche OEM.
Let me also state that magazines, especially Car and Driver which did the Z06 vs. 996TT feature that keeps coming up, are worthless for estimating real-world results.. they are politically/economically/ motivated eyewash (Car and Driver now admits that, for years, it fabricated Letters to Editors). Even they have been inconsistent reporting on the Z06. I can remember a subsequent article that criticized it for being tail-happy at the track.
In the spirit of preaching to the choir, this is a 993 board, many of which can now be purchased for less than a new Z06. And the neat thing about 993's is that you can readily make them a whole lot faster at track duty with established and reasonable aftermarket stuff, have fun in the process, and ultimately come up with a car that at least will not be embarrassed by the Z06.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jim, I had no intent to take you to task, and I hope no offense was taken.
I also didn't intend my post to evolve into a Z06 discussion. What makes this my favorite message board on the web is that while the board participants are primarily Porsche fans, they are also very knowledgable about high performance cars and not afraid to discuss these cars in general and in comparison to Porsches. By comparison, mentioning another make in a favorable light on the Z06 boards is analogous to asserting your loyalty to the Taliban. As such, that board is only of interest to me when I have a question I need answered. It's not the "community" that this board is.
As to the question you posed about track times, I don't know what the configuration of Watkins Glen is like, so I don't know what it is analogous to. Road and Track did a comparison of a number of high performance cars at Thunderhill a while back (1/01 I beleive), with Steve Millen as the driver of each. Thunderhill is a prett fast circuit, with these cars running average lap times in excess of 80 mph and hitting about 140 mph at the end of the main straight.
I believe all the cars were stock, and in that comprison the Z06 finshed 2nd to the Ferrari 360 Modena. (That test used a 2001 Z06, so I would think the 2002 Z06 with more ponies and some suspension refinements would be a tick faster). A 996TT was about 2 seconds off the pace of the Z06 (don't know if the 996TT was stick or tip).
360 Modena 2:07.65
Corvette Z06 2:08.36
550 Maranello 2:09.25
911 Turbo 2:10.73
BMW Z8 2:13.30
Accura NSX 2:14.15
MB SL 500 2:16.05
Camaro SS 2:16.46
M Roadster 2:17.28
Boxster S 2:17.46
S 2000 2:17.66
SLK 320 2:20.87
This test is just one comparison, but I think it's useful. While I would agree that some of the magazine articles need to be veiwed with some sketicism, I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are "worthless".
<strong>Roger, You are absolutely justified in taking me to task in your response. I've since been all over the web looking unsuccessfully for Z06 times posted at events at Watkin's Glen, arguably a high speed track and where I had my run-in with 2 Z06's, because I hate posts like mine that infer an absolute based upon very limited exposure, and I hoped to defend myself on the Z06 vs. 993.
Additionally, I was comparing my car to what was probably a dead stock Z06, and me with much larger than stock wheels and fresh Hoosier rubber on 9's and 11.5's with a 12" footprint in back, upgraded brakes/track pads and a Motorsports suspension that was not offered by Porsche OEM.
Let me also state that magazines, especially Car and Driver which did the Z06 vs. 996TT feature that keeps coming up, are worthless for estimating real-world results.. they are politically/economically/ motivated eyewash (Car and Driver now admits that, for years, it fabricated Letters to Editors). Even they have been inconsistent reporting on the Z06. I can remember a subsequent article that criticized it for being tail-happy at the track.
In the spirit of preaching to the choir, this is a 993 board, many of which can now be purchased for less than a new Z06. And the neat thing about 993's is that you can readily make them a whole lot faster at track duty with established and reasonable aftermarket stuff, have fun in the process, and ultimately come up with a car that at least will not be embarrassed by the Z06.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jim, I had no intent to take you to task, and I hope no offense was taken.
I also didn't intend my post to evolve into a Z06 discussion. What makes this my favorite message board on the web is that while the board participants are primarily Porsche fans, they are also very knowledgable about high performance cars and not afraid to discuss these cars in general and in comparison to Porsches. By comparison, mentioning another make in a favorable light on the Z06 boards is analogous to asserting your loyalty to the Taliban. As such, that board is only of interest to me when I have a question I need answered. It's not the "community" that this board is.
As to the question you posed about track times, I don't know what the configuration of Watkins Glen is like, so I don't know what it is analogous to. Road and Track did a comparison of a number of high performance cars at Thunderhill a while back (1/01 I beleive), with Steve Millen as the driver of each. Thunderhill is a prett fast circuit, with these cars running average lap times in excess of 80 mph and hitting about 140 mph at the end of the main straight.
I believe all the cars were stock, and in that comprison the Z06 finshed 2nd to the Ferrari 360 Modena. (That test used a 2001 Z06, so I would think the 2002 Z06 with more ponies and some suspension refinements would be a tick faster). A 996TT was about 2 seconds off the pace of the Z06 (don't know if the 996TT was stick or tip).
360 Modena 2:07.65
Corvette Z06 2:08.36
550 Maranello 2:09.25
911 Turbo 2:10.73
BMW Z8 2:13.30
Accura NSX 2:14.15
MB SL 500 2:16.05
Camaro SS 2:16.46
M Roadster 2:17.28
Boxster S 2:17.46
S 2000 2:17.66
SLK 320 2:20.87
This test is just one comparison, but I think it's useful. While I would agree that some of the magazine articles need to be veiwed with some sketicism, I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are "worthless".
03-20-2002, 03:00 PM
#34
Instructor
[quote]Originally posted by roger sf:
<strong>
Jim, I had no intent to take you to task, and I hope no offense was taken.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
None taken, Roger..
<strong>
Jim, I had no intent to take you to task, and I hope no offense was taken.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
None taken, Roger..
03-21-2002, 12:00 PM
#36
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[quote]Originally posted by Robin 993 DX In Atlanta:
<strong>JM,
Maybe there is something wrong with your Cup car's motor?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think so Robin. Gordon checked the compression, leak down etc and its perfect. No issues at all, it's just that 315HP VS 400+ does not add up in straights.... Also, remember that I weight 220 lbs....
<strong>JM,
Maybe there is something wrong with your Cup car's motor?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think so Robin. Gordon checked the compression, leak down etc and its perfect. No issues at all, it's just that 315HP VS 400+ does not add up in straights.... Also, remember that I weight 220 lbs....
03-21-2002, 12:06 PM
#37
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[quote]Originally posted by Gibo993:
<strong>Whats a Z06 ? Can you post a pic as we don't get them over here in Blighty</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean you Brits don't get this American masterpiece?
<a href="http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/index_z06.htm" target="_blank">Z06 - THE EXTREME CORVETTE</a>
<strong>Whats a Z06 ? Can you post a pic as we don't get them over here in Blighty</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean you Brits don't get this American masterpiece?
<a href="http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/index_z06.htm" target="_blank">Z06 - THE EXTREME CORVETTE</a>
03-21-2002, 12:41 PM
#38
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[quote]Originally posted by 993 RS Clubsport:
<strong>If FORD gets crazy and BUILDS the new GT40 for $90,000 and it has 540HP, 15" brakes, 2400lbs with A/c and CD radio, power windows.......that would be a supercool ride and the closest thing to an IMSA GTS or GTP car Ill could ever own and still drive on the street. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The GT40 was under development last year as a viable production model. Then the management blunders, Firestone fiasco, WTC attacks, etc dried up the billions of cash reserves, and in typical fashion all future model programs were cut. As I prepared to head to the Detroit Auto Show, a buddy of mine said not to get too excited about the GT40, it's already been cancelled.
Then last month there was a big company announcement, and they said that due to the huge response at the auto show, they've resurrected the program. Using the typical corporate BS jargon, they want to "polish the Ford oval".
It's a controversial topic around here. There not a lot of enthusiasts in the salary ranks (obviously). But I think the GT40 will be a good thing. I just hope that they do a better job campaigning the racing program than Jaguar (F1). I've also hear rumors about a V12 instead of supercharged V8, though I don't think that would be keeping in line with the history of the car.
I've also heard that it will likely be assembled by an outside supplier. So build quality should better than one might expect.
<strong>If FORD gets crazy and BUILDS the new GT40 for $90,000 and it has 540HP, 15" brakes, 2400lbs with A/c and CD radio, power windows.......that would be a supercool ride and the closest thing to an IMSA GTS or GTP car Ill could ever own and still drive on the street. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The GT40 was under development last year as a viable production model. Then the management blunders, Firestone fiasco, WTC attacks, etc dried up the billions of cash reserves, and in typical fashion all future model programs were cut. As I prepared to head to the Detroit Auto Show, a buddy of mine said not to get too excited about the GT40, it's already been cancelled.
Then last month there was a big company announcement, and they said that due to the huge response at the auto show, they've resurrected the program. Using the typical corporate BS jargon, they want to "polish the Ford oval".
It's a controversial topic around here. There not a lot of enthusiasts in the salary ranks (obviously). But I think the GT40 will be a good thing. I just hope that they do a better job campaigning the racing program than Jaguar (F1). I've also hear rumors about a V12 instead of supercharged V8, though I don't think that would be keeping in line with the history of the car.
I've also heard that it will likely be assembled by an outside supplier. So build quality should better than one might expect.
03-21-2002, 01:25 PM
#39
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[quote]Originally posted by Viken:
<strong>
You mean you Brits don't get this American masterpiece?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
For some reason the factory refuses to produce the Corvette in right hand drive which immediately reduces their desireability over here to the average buyer but you still see a few left hookers around the streets of London. If they did I think it would become very popular very quickly because nothing comes close to the value for money package that the Corvette is. TVR's are the closest match in terms of performance/price range/running costs but the Corvette absolutely obliterates them in terms of what you get for the cash. If they produce RHD then TVR watch out!
M
<strong>
You mean you Brits don't get this American masterpiece?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
For some reason the factory refuses to produce the Corvette in right hand drive which immediately reduces their desireability over here to the average buyer but you still see a few left hookers around the streets of London. If they did I think it would become very popular very quickly because nothing comes close to the value for money package that the Corvette is. TVR's are the closest match in terms of performance/price range/running costs but the Corvette absolutely obliterates them in terms of what you get for the cash. If they produce RHD then TVR watch out!
M
03-31-2002, 02:52 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
What about the OZ Holden? It supposedly has the 350hp Vette engine and would be close and a rhd. The rumor is it will end up in the US as the new GTO.
P.S. roger sf, I think you could use a 91 BMW 318is with 180,000 miles in your rotation. It would get the best mileage. :-)
[quote]Originally posted by mags993tt:
<strong>
For some reason the factory refuses to produce the Corvette in right hand drive which immediately reduces their desireability over here to the average buyer but you still see a few left hookers around the streets of London. If they did I think it would become very popular very quickly because nothing comes close to the value for money package that the Corvette is. TVR's are the closest match in terms of performance/price range/running costs but the Corvette absolutely obliterates them in terms of what you get for the cash. If they produce RHD then TVR watch out!
M</strong><hr></blockquote>
P.S. roger sf, I think you could use a 91 BMW 318is with 180,000 miles in your rotation. It would get the best mileage. :-)
[quote]Originally posted by mags993tt:
<strong>
For some reason the factory refuses to produce the Corvette in right hand drive which immediately reduces their desireability over here to the average buyer but you still see a few left hookers around the streets of London. If they did I think it would become very popular very quickly because nothing comes close to the value for money package that the Corvette is. TVR's are the closest match in terms of performance/price range/running costs but the Corvette absolutely obliterates them in terms of what you get for the cash. If they produce RHD then TVR watch out!
M</strong><hr></blockquote>
