B-Line

Hey JM,

I had a 996TT in my rearview at Sebring.. Of course he pitted behind me and was only there long enough for me to realize it wasn't a boxster

Those 996TT's are really damn fast, I pointed him by, I barely blinked and he was gone..

roger sf

A.J., you have a good memory! I didn't want to make my response unreasonably complicated, but I'm getting 50% of a Modena and 50% of a Maserati Spyder. I'm experimenting with a concept where a friend and I are entering into a structured car rotation. The concept is that car buffs like us tend to like more than one car and having access to multiple cars for the same investment you have in one would be desirable outcome. Our rotation will be monthly where one month I'll have the Ferrari, the next the Maserati, and so on. If it works out we might expand it to up to 6 people and 6 cars. We've spent a lot of time on the details and logistics of how it will work, but we need to actually try it out a bit before deciding what to do next. The ironic thing was that he didn't want my 993TT in the rotation and I didn't want his 996TT in it either!

Also, I loved your "I have seen God" comment. I've seen that look on the faces of people who've been out in the Z06 on the track. Didn't know how to describe it until now. I really think the sound of the Z06 has a lot to do with that look. The turbocharged Porsche's that are running essentially the same laps times are so much quieter they are almost serene by comparison.

Jim S., I had a C2S prior to the 993TT, and can unequivocally say that there is no way that a C2S stays with a Z06 on the track unless there is a significant difference in the skill of the driver or the Z06 has some sort of mechanical limitation. The magazine tests support this in spades. From a personal perspective, I had about 30 days of track experience in my two Porsche's prior to getting the Z06 and consider myself reasonably fast on the track relative to other drivers in comparable cars. Other than one day in my M5, I'd never driven a front engine car on the track before the Z06. In my first day on the track with the Z06 (Thunderhill) I turned lap times that were almost 4 seconds faster than in the 993TT. The C2S would have a braking advantage over the Z06 after about 8 laps or so but the session would probably have to be 40 or more laps before the C2S would see the Z06 again. This doesn’t mean that I'm discounting your story, just indicating that you are a better driver and/or the guy wasn't pushing the Z06.

The Z06 has a number of weak points that Porsche never would have allowed to make it to production. The Z06's brakes are actually phenomenal, but are designed for street use and not track use. They don't do a god job managing heat and as result they start to fade after 6 or so laps, depending on the circuit. Upgraded pads, fluids, and adding stainless steel brake lines have vastly improved this for me. The brakes aren't up to Porsche standards, and I may need to upgrade to Brembos eventually, but for now they are very workable.

The other real problem with the Z06, which was noted earlier, is that the transmission gets real hot. The car should have had a factory installed transmission cooler, but did not. GM racing sells just such a cooler and I'm having this added to the car. The good news is that when you buy this stuff for a Chevrolet it's about 50% less for the parts and 25%+ less for labor.

Suwipin

That's a very interesting car rotation deal that you have there Roger.

At any rate, was it you at Sears Point with Tracquest in December? I thought I saw a yellow Z06 there.

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by Jean-Marc:
<strong>

Greg,
I would really like to know what motor you have in your race car because there is NO WAY that I can keep up with a ZO6 in stratights and accelerations in my race car. I mean NO WAY. Same deal with 996TT, they just pull hundreds of feets away from me on a track like Road Atlanta.
JM</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wish it was something other than the stock 3.6. The track in reference is Putnam Park with a fairly short front straight and you enter the straight at about 75-80 mph. He definitly pulled me (I was in front) but not what he thought he would do. If it was at Road Atlanta I am sure he would have made more time on me since you go from a slow 40 mph turn up to 140+ in my car at least.
Maybe my friend was short shifting to make me feel better.
Greg

Jean-Marc

[quote]Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>

I wish it was something other than the stock 3.6. The track in reference is Putnam Park with a fairly short front straight and you enter the straight at about 75-80 mph. He definitly pulled me (I was in front) but not what he thought he would do. If it was at Road Atlanta I am sure he would have made more time on me since you go from a slow 40 mph turn up to 140+ in my car at least.
Maybe my friend was short shifting to make me feel better.
Greg</strong><hr></blockquote>

Now I am starting to understand. In my car, 7 is at about redline of 2nd so maybe 70MPH and I end up at 145MPH, the vette ends up at 160 MPH, imagine the difference!!! Anyway, now I get it

Joe@Fabspeed

THE 2003 ZO6 Vette will be the 50th anniversary of Corvette.

Rumor has it on the Corvette boards that General Motors (corvette enthusiasts were right on the +20HP power increase of 405HP for the 2002 ZO6 from 2001).........that there maybe a 450HP Z06 Coupe. If this happens it will be even more of a rocketship. Great sportscar value no matter what brand one is partial to. I dropped off a $250desposit @ the Chevy dealer to get inline just in case.

If FORD gets crazy and BUILDS the new GT40 for $90,000 and it has 540HP, 15" brakes, 2400lbs with A/c and CD radio, power windows.......that would be a supercool ride and the closest thing to an IMSA GTS or GTP car Ill could ever own and still drive on the street. The Sallen S7R would be my altime favorite outrageous streetcar.......ultra superfast.....but over $300K

Greg Fishman

JM,
I would guess that RA turn 7 is about 60-65 for me at the exit. Thinking back I would guess the speed at the track I mentioned is closer to 85-90 at the exit. It is a momentum turn and if you hit it right a low hp car can make a pass. I have been on both ends of that equation. He was losing a second or so a lap because he didn't have Hoosiers, and I was running ones that were two weekends old. If we both had equal tires he would have been faster, no doubt. Curious how the Z06 does against stock Vipers.

Roger,
Have you been to any Viper Days events in CA? If not you would enjoy them, if you want to instruct at one let me know I can get you in touch with their chief instructor.
Greg

Jean-Marc

Greg,
My (educated?) guess is that the ZO6 will chew up a stock GTS Viper any day of the week in equal hands. I can typically stay with the Vipers because they need to break soooo early for 10a. Not so with a Zo6... I guess that it would be interesting to see. Anyway, are you going to the club race early next month in Atlanta?
JM

roger sf

Greg, I think the victor in a tussle between a stock Viper and stock Z06 would depend on the track. Tighter tracks will favor the lighter (3100 lbs), more agile, and better braking Z06 (similar to a set up that favors the 911), while a bigger more open track would favor the Viper with it's ridiculous horsepower and better handling than most people would think.

I don't do quarter mile events but I understand the Z06s are usually faster than the Viper because the Z06's weight advantage allows it to get quicker launches and the 1/4 mile isn't long enough for the Viper to reel it in. Just for fun I tried to execute some quick launches in the Z06 and found it to be very difficult, as the line between not enough revs and a full blown burn out is very thin.

Only time I've been on a big track with a Viper he punished me, but the driver is an ex-professional racer driving on Hoosiers, so my ego wasn't too badly bruised.

I have been tempted by a several Viper Club events out here, as they often open them up to non Viper members. If I decide to go to one I'll check in with you so I know who to get connected with. Thanks for that offer.

FWIW, I'll pass on doing any instructing in a Viper. In the events I attend where Vipers are run by less seasoned drivers (e.g. those who need instructors), there are invariably some pretty exciting spins by those drivers. We joke that the terms "Viper" and "Spun" are redundant. It is a lot of car to handle - more than most drivers are capable of.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

[quote]Originally posted by Jean-Marc:
<strong>

Now I am starting to understand. In my car, 7 is at about redline of 2nd so maybe 70MPH and I end up at 145MPH, the vette ends up at 160 MPH, imagine the difference!!! Anyway, now I get it </strong><hr></blockquote>

JM, I hate to think a relatively stock ZO6 is that much faster than your CUP car. <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />

At any rate, both cars are fun at the track.

E. J.

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by Jean-Marc:
<strong> Anyway, are you going to the club race early next month in Atlanta?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
JM,
I be there, I may even try to go to the Lapping day on Friday if the weather looks good. Look forward to seeing you there. I will be curious to hear your take on your first Club Race.
Greg

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by roger sf:
<strong>
FWIW, I'll pass on doing any instructing in a Viper. In the events I attend where Vipers are run by less seasoned drivers (e.g. those who need instructors), there are invariably some pretty exciting spins by those drivers. We joke that the terms "Viper" and "Spun" are redundant. It is a lot of car to handle - more than most drivers are capable of.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree some of these guys are a real hand full and you have to work real hard at reeling them in. I have been lucky, had a lady that had done like 5 events and was not interested in top speed, unlike most of her male counterparts, she would coast into the first turn after the front straight brake less than most everyone else and still turn better lap time than most of the guys. She was smooth with the go pedal and that made huge gains in her speed. And I have seen just the opposite, the guy that thinks fast is lighting the tires up at 90mph before he spins off the track.
If I thought a student was way out of hand, I would be out of the car withing a lap, but most of them are well behaved.
They do have special hats for us Viper Days instructors though, they read "Bigger ***** that Most, Viper Days Instructor". Some might argue Smaller Brains...
Greg

Jean-Marc

[quote]Originally posted by E. J.:
<strong>

JM, I hate to think a relatively stock ZO6 is that much faster than your CUP car. <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />

At any rate, both cars are fun at the track.

E. J.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hate it too but there's 100 HP difference !!!!
Imagine a Lambo or something like that, it would be the same. Also, I can barely keep up, on Road Atlanta's back straight, with a street 360 (I kill it evrywhere else though )
JM
JM
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Robin 993DX

JM,

Maybe there is something wrong with your Cup car's motor?

E. J. - 993 Alumni

[quote]Originally posted by Jean-Marc:
<strong>

I hate it too but there's 100 HP difference !!!!
Imagine a Lambo or something like that, it would be the same. Also, I can barely keep up, on Road Atlanta's back straight, with a street 360 (I kill it evrywhere else though )
JM
JM
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I can understand the straights, but the lightness of your car (how much does it weigh?) should make up for that except for the straights. But you are right, there is no substitute for horsepower. I hear you about the 360 too, tough spot to be in.

E. J.