993tt

Apologize for the cross posting but since there's no forum for tech questions and I'm panicking...


I got big problems with a allen screw... After two hours of trying to loosen one I finally applied too much force and the inside went round

I'm planning to weld an allen key onto the bolt tomorrow and try to get it loose. Not my favourite choice because it's on the engine head but I don't know what else to do... As usual (in a porsche) it's very tight and I can't use any kind of wrench and I don't want to rip out the engine.

Is there anyone with a better solution. Any help is VERY much appreciated.


/E

Ron

Would it be possible for you to post a photo of the problem allen screw? That way we could see what your situation is with respect to space.

993tt

Will try to get out there later tonight and post a photo

/E

Jeff 993TT

If you have access, try using a dremel to make a notch to use a flat blade screwdriver to remove the screw.

Or maybe a small pair of vise grips?

Or you can just dremel off the entire head of the allen bolt, if you have enough shaft left to undo the bolt portion.

Umm.. also, you pretty much never want to use an allen key on your car. Get a set of 3/8" drive allen socket bits and you'll be much happier.

993tt

No room for vice grips .

I just got the tip about the dremel in another thread and I think I will try that before I do anything else. Thanks!

Actually it's 3/8" allen thingy I've been using. Sorry about my language I'm from Sweden

/E

Jeff 993TT

And as a last resort, you can use a drill and tap to get the bolt out.

But you really don't want to go that route.. But if you do, I can provide some tips on this.

JM993

Hi Eric,

I broke two of those damn allen bolts that attach the engine sheetmetal when I was changing my plugs. (Made a fun job even more fun). Is this where your problem is? If you an weld an allen wrench to the bolt without heating up the head - this is a good solution. Otheerwise, try the dremel tool. You may want to heat the bolt a little before you try to remove it. If all else fails, you might have to drill it and use an ez-out. In this case, be VERY careful not to break the ez-out in the bolt (ask me how I know)!!

Kindest Regards,
Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW M3
1988 BMW 325IS
2001 KTM 400 MXC

Ron

I'd try first removing it using a method that does not involve doing any grinding or slotting of the head. The more material you remove the weaker the head becomes and the more likely it will break.

If you have enough room use an extractor that has a camlock that grips the head. They come in different sizes but may not be small enough for you.

If that doesn't work try a bolt extractor that goes over and around the head of offending allen head. They have spiral flutes that grip the head when you back it out.


If that doesn't work and you have no space then get a long shank triple square allen mounted in a socket. The size needs to be just a little bit bigger than the space you have rounded off inside the allen head. Tap it in with a hammer and try to unscrew it. The 12 sharp points will hopefull dig in and grip the inside of the head so you can remove it without to much more trouble.

chris walrod

You may want to try pressing (ok beating) in a larger size allen wrench, like the next size up in a fractional size (Imperial)?

Post pics so we can get a better feel for what you are up against..

csertich

I've made myself some files from posts for future reference. I can't give credit to the person who posted this because I didn't record the Rennlisters ID. I hope he or she doesn't mind my copying their info and posting it here. I just couldn't resist. I used this tool/method on removing my sports seats after the allen heads began to strip. Here is the info:

"Bolt-Out damaged bolt remover from Sears. They kind of self-tap onto the bolt or in my case Allen head; You fit a 19mm box wrench over it and... the bolt backs out like butter. "

Now having said that, I see that you are in Sweden. If you would like, I'd be glad to get this bolt remover tool for you at my local Sears and send it to my 'homeland' (I'm adopted and my birthmother and father were Swedish). If I'd thought about it, I would have asked them if they had Sears stores in Sweden. The one main reason I didn't ask is that we met right after my birth and I was only about six minutes old. They left me with my adopted parents soon after seeing me and I never saw them again. I'm thinking they headed to Sears in Chicago, since they were in town.

Let me know. I'm serious about sending you this item if you would want me too.

Take care,
chuck

chuck

Ray Calvo

I wrote this up for our PCA region newsletter a while back - and have posted it here before - DO AN ARCHIVE SEARCH, LAZYBONES!


-------------------------------------
ALLEN-HEAD BOLT JOYS
by Ray Calvo

If you have done any work on Porsches (and other German cars), you will notice that they are in love with Allen-headed bolts (and recently Torx-headed ones). I don't know what the reason is for this, but I suspect it is ease of robotic assembly with them.

Biggest problem I have noticed with these bolts is that after they have been in place for several years, and you have to remove something that has been out in the elements, the heads are fairly easy to strip. Not being careful about fully inserting the socket into the bolt, or cocking the socket as you apply torque will invariably strip them. Once they are stripped, now you are left with how to remove a stripped bolt that's cold-welded itself in place.

First, to avoid (or at least minimize the problem), DON't use an Allen wrench or socket that has a rounded, worn end. Replace it, or you have a much higher chance of rounding the bolt head. Sears will (still) exchange a worn/broken hand tool for a brand-new one. As far as tools to use, would ONLY recommend high-quality ones (Sears, Snappy, Snap-On, etc.) Also, don't use an Allen wrench/socket with a worn end; replace it.

If you do strip the bolt, I have found two possible ways to get out the stripped bolt:


A) BOLT HEAD CLEARLY ACCESSIBLE

I have used the following emergency fix for several of the above situations, including CV joint bolts on two different 911s and a brake caliper bracket on my Audi. This works for the smaller size Allen head bolts in my experience (up to approx. 8mm hex). Get a good quality 6" pipe wrench (mine is by Ridgid); this small size will allow you to get into relatively tight areas. Wrap it around the bolt and pull up the slack. Now, whack the end of the wrench with a good-size hammer. The wrench head will bite into the bolts and provide a good grip; the hammer will help shock the bolt loose.

B) BOLT HEAD NOT TOTALLY ACCESSIBLE

I found this method when I stripped the 6MM bolt heads holding the seat in place; these are buried inside a U-channel, and you only have access to about a 30 degree arc on the bolt head. With a quality center punch and a heavy hammer, knock a centering knick in the center of the side of the bolt head (right angles to shaft, parallel to mounting surface). Now, while holding the center punch in the indented hole, move the punch head to the right slightly so that the punch is at an angle to the bolt head. Give the punch a sharp wrap with the hammer; if you're lucky, should be able to break the bolt free with a few tries.

On reassembly, recommend using a new bolt (even if you didn't sstrip the head) and coat liberally with anti-seize.

Much of the above should also be applicable to the newer Torx bolts.

993tt

Sorry Ray but none of your solutions will work for me but thanks anyway

will post pics later so u will see why

/E

993tt

Guys!

Thanks for all the tips. Now I have atleast 6 different (possible) solutions for my problem I'm going to the shop later today and see what I will find. I will post pics later so u can see what the fuzz is all about.

/E

993tt

Thanks Chuck but I think it will take a little to long time before I get them. I really need to fix this asap. I'll get back to you if I can't solve it any other way.

/Erik

triscadek

On soft metal the internal Sears screw-out should work but on something like brass (screws for the door stay on a 944) it just works like a drill bit.

I go for the idea of driving a torx bit into the stripped area.