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I´m ok with a 3.8l. If I've to do the rebuild then that's the way I would go.
50-60k is too much IMHO as I'm already really happy with the car and don't need it to be a monster. Its the drivability that I enjoy so much.
I´ve another fun car just for track purposes (BMW M3 E92 GT4 with 450PS) that delivers me fun & adrenalin if needed.
It’s really up to you to determine if it’s “worth it”. Some are satisfied with the car as the factory delivered it. Others are on an eternal quest to create the ultimate Porsche. Incremental improvements are small while cash expenditures are large. Those small changes have a way of really transforming car though.
Would I go 3.8? Probably not, I don’t like the factory’s heavy pistons and loss of head sealing area.
Refreshing the engine and decking the cylinders (I forget specs) to achieve factory advertised compression (maybe a touch more) and adding some mild cams would go a long way to waking up the engine. I feel most would be happy with how responsive this would make the power plant and be quite satisfied with the results. I have to believe going from your 100k engine to the above would put a smile on your face.
I love N/A engines and I will never ever turbo charge or supercharge a 993. That's to me a sacrilege.
aircooledbug: thank you very much for your detailed review. I read it and now I "want" that 3.8l conversion anyhow... I drive my 993 hard and I really would make something out of that extra power. But let's see if the engine needs to be rebuild at this stage. I should now this week...
For sure mate. I understand and would do the same on a n/a only motor. I just wanted to let you know that these are tremendously stout motors. They don’t share tech across the line like the used to in the day. How oft have you heard a motor letting go on this forum (the largest in world)?
Good of luck and really think it through. They’re are some good parts out there that can be had by private sellers no longer wanting to do a build on the cheap. Either way, we know a lot more about these motors now...too bad the parts/laborers know the same nowadays.
I would have a leak down and compression test done. If the numbers are good keep it stock. I just refreshed a 993 engine with new seals. The owner was given the impression by his mechanic he needed a top end at 124k miles. Leak down numbers were great put the car on the dyno after I was done and it put down factory numbers with a bit more torque. This same engine put out 300 BHP with a cat-less exhaust no tune. Surprisingly the lifters were fine but he claims he changes his oil religiously which helps.
IMO the 3.8 is only worth it if you do an ITB setup and full tune otherwise for the money a low boost twin turbo will get you a lot of safe power if tuned properly. You might also consider a gear swap it can add a lot of pep to these cars. None of this is inexpensive. I can say with low boost twin turbo done properly most people can't tell it is turboed. I prefer the N/A cars myself and unlike my 94 single turbo with lag and sudden unadulterated power the low boost setup is smooth and has no lag just more power up top. Coupled with the short gears it feels like an N/A car.
I can say with low boost twin turbo done properly most people can't tell it is turboed. I prefer the N/A cars myself and unlike my 94 single turbo with lag and sudden unadulterated power the low boost setup is smooth and has no lag just more power up top. Coupled with the short gears it feels like an N/A car.
Thats the beauty of it high compression low boost setup. Feels more like a GT3 than a turbo. There’s no “lag” or “hit”, just smooth progressive power. Sure it will never achieve the big numbers a low compression high boost setup will but the drivability can’t be beat. I am sitting around 550hp (100oct) with my current high compression/low boost setup. More than enough for me in this chassis!
I would have a leak down and compression test done. If the numbers are good keep it stock. I just refreshed a 993 engine with new seals. The owner was given the impression by his mechanic he needed a top end at 124k miles. Leak down numbers were great put the car on the dyno after I was done and it put down factory numbers with a bit more torque. This same engine put out 300 BHP with a cat-less exhaust no tune. Surprisingly the lifters were fine but he claims he changes his oil religiously which helps.
IMO the 3.8 is only worth it if you do an ITB setup and full tune otherwise for the money a low boost twin turbo will get you a lot of safe power if tuned properly. You might also consider a gear swap it can add a lot of pep to these cars. None of this is inexpensive. I can say with low boost twin turbo done properly most people can't tell it is turboed. I prefer the N/A cars myself and unlike my 94 single turbo with lag and sudden unadulterated power the low boost setup is smooth and has no lag just more power up top. Coupled with the short gears it feels like an N/A car.
Agree with all of the above...and would love to try a low-boost 993.
Only thing I'd add is the most satisfying "big" (3.6 and up) air-cooled engine I've tried on the street remains the TPC/Eaton setup on a stock 3.6. Revs like an N/A engine with a perfectly linear power band, sounds great, and has predictable/usable torque in a way no turbo engine can (and I like turbo engines...if they're good). Not sure what the best engine management/fuel platform is for such an engine, however, and CA emissions means it's a no go in this state. Most of the 3.8s and 4.0s I have tried are nice, but not what I'd call incredible—and certainly not GT3-ish. Just my two cents...
Originally Posted by os993
I would look at re-gearing the tranny and compare that to the cost of the 3.8.
I re-geared and did the RS flywheel and clutch. Transformed the car. Would a 3.8 have done the same? I don't know, but food for thought.
Here is a dyno of a 964 C2 and my twin turbo low boost 993 N/A engine with short gears.
Mustang dyno 18% loss. Not great power but not bad and pulled like a freight train. At 2650 pounds the car is a rocket. I am currently redoing the entire engine instead of it being a boosted stock motor I am going the full 9 yards Stainless and Ti Borg warner turbos. Carrillo pistons to a slightly lesser CR, pauter rods Ti spring retainers, solid lifters (modified my hydraulic ones and much more. Taking my time with it but once the new intake and exhaust is done it will be dyno tuned with a stand alone ECU covering a multitude of parameters to prevent any issues. Dual WB AFR, even inputting turbine speed for any imbalance. There will also be several power modes all on pump gas. I expect to see a bit more power and a nicer curve.
Not sure who's quote that is, but it's totally false. In fact the same case architecture survived all the way into the 2009 Turbo and the 2013 GT3 which made north of 480 HP stock, and the Mezger architecture has been capable of 1000+Hp in race applications.
993 is nowhere near tapped out as far as performance potential.
THE Metzger engine(s) are in general race engines, and the closes adaption to a road car would be the old GT3 engines ...
The best 'Metzger engine' ever build was in his own opinion the F1 engine for TAG / McLaren ...
08-26-2019, 11:41 AM
I drive my 993 hard and I really would make something out of that extra power. But let's see if the engine needs to be rebuild at this stage. I should now this week...
