Ron

I copied the below paragraph from a post on another board. Is what they are saying true? I use 0W-40 in my ML and noticed that the container says European Formula. I wonder if that means it is less of a blend and more synthetic. The 15W-50 container doesn't say anything about European Formula.

"Mobil 1 aint what it used to be. What I mean by this is some lobbiest for the oil companies last year convinced Washington that they can now call oils that have less of a synthetic/petroleum ratio synthetic. What this did was make Mobil 1 very unprofitable compared to other companies newly advertised Synthetics. So, without really underscoring this with the consumer, Mobil 1 reduced their mixture from purely synthetic to a blend, and under the new guidlines, they can still call it synthetic. I personally then switched to Amsoil, as it's still a fully synthetic oil. Most of the fully synthetic oils still made are for racing, where cost is not a factor and they are more knowledgeable than the average consumer. Royal Purple is the other big fully synthetic oil I'm aware of. Does anyone else want to add more to this as I'm certainly not an expert on Petroleum Chemistry."

ljugete

I'm not an expert either and would also like to know since I currently use this grade of "synthetic" oil in my 2004 Cayenne S!

OldGuy

This almost smells like a AMSOIL plant. How do you verify this
there are many people that use Mobil 1 not in only their cars
but like me in our racing bikes that count on its label.
I would like to see more proof.

Ron

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1224183

The link to the thread I copied the above from.

PramTT

Guys, the following are info I got from the Motul people (so take it with a grain of salt)

"Back awhile ago, Mobil 1 used to be blend of Ester polymer and PAO (poly-alpha olefin). When Castrol introduced Syntec, which uses type 3 hydrocracked oil as synthetic, Mobil sued Castrol and lost. Since type 3 oil is much cheaper to produce, Mobil 1 was reformulated to "Tri synthetic formula" which is a blend of Ester, PAO and type 3 oil. Currently M1 is formulated as "Supersyn" which are blend of PAO and type 3 oil. All of it is done to mantain profitability especially with regard to competition from synthetic oil using only type 3 oil."


My 2 cents on this issue:

The whole problem with "blend" is that nobody (the consumer) knows about the actual ratio of the blend. Ester being the most expensive followed by PAO and type 3 oil being the cheapest, you all know what to do to if you want to maximize profit.

I personally uses either Redline or Motul 300V since they are 100% ester polymer.

OldGuy

Here is a quote from the mobil site itself
stating mobil one is a pure synthetic oil compared to its
new drive clean oil:

4. How does it compare to Mobil 1?

Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic oil, meaning it is engineered from synthetic materials. Mobil 1 uses high-performance synthetic fluids, including polyalpha olephins (PAO), along with a high performance proprietary system of additives. Mobil Drive Clean Blend is a mix of conventional and synthetic baseoils. It offers a higher level of performance than most conventional oils, but not as high as Mobil 1. Think of the Mobil line-up as “good” (Mobil Drive Clean Oil), “better” (Mobil Drive Clean Blend) and “best” (Mobil 1).

PramTT

The following are quotes from the Mobil1 site:

What is Mobil 1 and why is it now called Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™?

Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic motor oil for automotive engines. It is made from a unique combination of high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefin (PAO), plus the SuperSyn™ anti-wear system for protection under the most extreme use. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is available in five viscosity grades

What's the difference between a fully synthetic and a semi-synthetic motor oil?

All motor oils are made up of base oils and additives. In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids. Semi-synthetic oils (also called "blends") usually use a small percentage of non-conventional, high-performance fluids in combination with conventional oil.


OG:
Notice that the definition of fully synthetic oil is basically "non-conventional. high performance fluids" which does not exclude type 3 hydrocracked oil a'la Castrol Syntec.

Also back when M1 is the tri-synthetic formula they claim something like this in their brochure (not exactly word by word as it has been awhile ago since I read them in the brochure):

Mobil 1 is made from a unique combination of high-performance fluids, including Ester polymer, polyalphaolefin (PAO), and alkylated naphta as anti-wear system. . . .

Ron

Pram,

"Mobil 1 is made from a unique combination of high-performance fluids, including Ester polymer, polyalphaolefin (PAO), and alkylated naphta as anti-wear system. . . ."

Based on what is stated above then Mobil 1 is not made from 100% ester polymer. Now I'm not sure I understand the significance of all that. So basically what is the significance of the fact that Motul does make some of their racing oils 10W-40, 15W-50, and 15W-60 with 100% ester polymer? I did see them on a website with a price of about $26 per two liter container.

protokultur

It's pretty much irrelevant as to how the oil was "made", whether it was polymerized from a lower carbon stock or produced from catalytic cracking of a higher carbon. The advantage of synthetic oil comes from the more monodisperse distribution of compounds within the blend, compared to fractionation from petroleum. If Mobil 1 still has this property, it doesn't matter whether the oil was 100% synthetic or 100% petro. Anyone that pays extra for oil on this basis alone, that it is a "true" synthetic, belongs in the organic whole foods camp.

P.S. if you ever see the word Amsoil mentioned repeatedly, turn your BS detector to max.

YellowC4S

I remember reading something about Castrol Syntec. I'll try to find the article.

Eyal 951

I like you! makes me feel better about the 9 quarts car takes 8.1 of 15w50 I JUST purchased. the BS detector is definetly picking up something here...

~Eyal

David C

Ron is correct. Mobil 1 used to contain a much higher percentage of PAO ($). They filed suit against Castrol when Syntec was released because Castrol used a much less costly "group 3" oil as their main base. Group 3 is basically a petroleum based oil which has been chemically altered or "pounded" to change molecular structure and has been technically classified as a synthetic when combined with certain additive packages. A good lubricant but NOT PAO.
Mobil lost and as a result changed their formula (hence: tri-synthetic) to keep competitive in the marketplace. Mobil 1 still contains some PAO as a base... chemists find it to be about 8%.
The highest PAO percentage of PAO base stock combined with the best available additive package is a product produced by DSI (Direct Synthetics). These oils were developed primarily for the offshore drilling industry but just happen to be the best products available. My 993 loves it.
Yes... there is a definate affilliation.
David

Norske

David,

Are you the same David I bought my 88 Silver turbo from, Motec, Fikse's etc.

Steve:

David C

Nope.
Sounds like an interesting car though.

David C

As a follow up concerning DSI Platinum Performance engine oil... it contains approximately 66%, depending on weight of poly-alpha olefin (PAO). Not cheap... but the best.