Autobahn

No, they aren't.

Autobahn

This should do
http://www2.porsche.de/german/deu/91...odelle_964.htm
BTW, the turbo S has a 3.3 liter engine with 381hp

cobalt

Autobahn,

ROW models retained the turbo 3,6 emblem on the rear lid. To the ROW they may only be considered flachbau versions with X88 engine package.

The turbo S you are referencing was never imported to the US.

We had a similar version to the Turbo S which was a 3.3 turbo converted here by Andial in California. designated as an S2. Same speedline rims air inlets and S tail boasting 381 hp without the headlight conversion.

In the US the flachbau was designated as a Turbo S. So to you it may not be the true S but here it is considered an S. These cars were rated at 381 hp with the 3.6 engine but produced a little more.

Adrains book on the 964's spells it all out.

Autobahn

Cobalt,

I am referring to the thread '92 turbo S' in the 964 turbo forum. I hope this clarifies things.

cobalt

Autobahn,

What you posted is out of context. The discussion you are refereing to was based on the 1992 version of the factory turbo S vs the US version with the 355 hp engine designated as the S2 by Andial who manufactured these cars from a stock 3.3 turbos. These cars were sold by PCNA not the factory. The factory turbo S was based on the 3.3 liter engine and was never imported to the US. The car we are discussing is based on the 3.6 turbo or as Adrian referenced to it as a 3.6 S.

I tried to carry over a passage written by Adrian. He refers to the car as a 3.6 S and states that they are not actually a product of the factory but Porsche Exclusive department. However they are still designated as Turbo S here in the US. The engine carried an additional S marking after the engine code and two Star impression stamps on either side of the engine serial number to designate the X88 conversion, along with the afore mentioned changes and the S insignia on the back lid.

Yes technicly you are correct this is not the legendary 1992 "turbo S" manufactured by the factory for the ROW market. But it does qualify as a rare special addition model sold in the US as a turbo S Flachbau in 1994. So all in all there is no correct answer. However it is still one of only 39 cars imported to the US. Differences between markets make this confusion. I see by your car you call it a 993tt with 450hp factory kit, here these cars also carry an S insignia designating the additional Hp. I must assume that is not the case over there.

I recommend reading the 964 turbo forum about the Japanese variant of the 965 turbo S.

Autobahn

Thanks Cobalt. It is always good to learn as much as possible about these amazing cars.

prscha

mark smith's car is beyond stock is a turbo s flachbau, considering he is my very good friend i am with most weekends, he is NOT the type of person who adds an S to the turbo to be a poser, IT IS A TURBO S .....have a nice day and i will work on him to get www.flachbau.com back up

prscha

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/t2...mall_copy1.jpg

here is a car i saw in livermore, see the mysterious S on this car

prscha

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/picture_002small.jpg

oops, here is mark's car, turbo s

Adrian

The factory photos of the Flachbau do not show an S. They actually show Turbo 3 6 (notice no dot) in silver script. It may be that some US customers requested an S, however I have never seen the "S" used apart from the genuine 1992 Turbo S and the Turbo S2 in the USA.
The official name for these Turbos by the way is "Turbo 3.6 Flachbau" with a M64/50S engine. The series are known as the Turbo 3.6 S because there were two versions, one with normal nose and one with the flat nose. If you ordered one back on 1994 you would have asked for a Flachbau.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

cobalt

Adrian,

I have personally have seen six of these cars all original US models. Along with MarkS who posts picks on his Web Site and four more I have seen advertised for sale. I don't know about LesQuam's car but I am sure he will corroborate that the US versions have black lettering with an S vs. the Chromed turbo 3.6 as on the stock US versions. Marks website has some copies of original factory documents that tell the differences about these cars US, ROW and Japanese. I believe if you check his sight it will show the turbo S script for US models.

PS. I recently received a PorscheAG "factory document" # WKD 498 321 on the US/Canadian 3.6 turbos. It was published and printed in 1992 in Germany. It states on the opening page that the 3.6 for US and Canada will be 1994 models and will carry a chromed "turbo 3.6" emblem on the rear lid.

It also stated that the US/Canadian versions will be serialized with an R and that the serialization numbers will begin 8xxxxx for US and 85xxxx for Canada.

So apparently they planned this well in advance of releasing the vehicles.

Adrian

Dear Anthony,
I have right in front of me an article written by David Coleman in April 1994 for Excellence. On pages 51 and 52 is the rear end of a Flatnose delivered to Beverly Hills Porsche and it clearly shows the Turbo 3.6 script in silver (chromed as you call it). No black and no S script I am afraid. I am very sorry but this image of a Porsche 911 (964) Turbo 3.6 Flachbau in a US Porsche dealer is pretty good evidence to me that they were not, well certainly not this one delivered with black Turbo S script. Could be a dealer thing but the factory photos show silver Turbo 3.6, Excellence shows silver Turbo 3.6 script.
I wonder Anthony if you can find a 1994 delivery photograph. This might be tough, I have Porsche Beverly Hills but there must have been others. maybe other US magazines of the era which did articles or road tests. Panorama maybe.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: The Turbo S script in black can only be found on the 1992 Turbo S based on the photographs supplied to me by PAG and from what I can find in other issues of Excellence.

labcars

Like Les Quam and Mark Smith, I own a flatnose (X85 option, vin #480424). My car carries the "Turbo S" script in black on the rear decklid. I also owned (since sold) a non-flatnose Turbo S (X88 option) which also had the script in black. The certificate of authenticity which was provided by PCNA refers to my car as having the "Turbo "S" flatnose package", as does the David Coleman article in the April '94 issue of Excellence. Moreover, I recall an issue about two years ago of the UK mag 911 & Porsche World which ran a comparo of the '94 Turbo S, a '97 993 Turbo S, and a 996TT. I recall the car in the article also having the black script on its decklid.

Adrian, While your right that the car in the Coleman article had the Turbo 3.6 in chrome on its decklid, it is the only one I've ever seen that way (and I've looked at over six, not including the two I've owned) and maybe attributable to the car in the article being an early production vehicle.

cobalt

It may have been an option but it appears that over 30% of the US cars out there are known to have it. The article is the only one I have heard of, and none of us have actually seen that car.

There are four of these cars on the market now all of them show the Black "turbo S" insignia check Ebay number 2460556560 amongst others.

ZAMIRZ

These cars were assembled at the end of the 964s production run, and from what I understand (mostly from flachbau.com that's currently down) they used a lot of leftover parts that were just hanging around in the Special Wishes Program building. It wouldn't surprise me if the same cars left the factory with different badges on the rear as seems to be the case here. Either way, these cars are magnificent and I have no doubt in my mind that on the top end they can outrun a stock 993 Turbo. When they first came out, I was only 10 years old and I remember a client of my fathers taking me out to lunch in his then brand-new flachbau and showing me what a turbocharged Porsche is all about. At the time I knew the differences between basic models, but I didn't know how much of a jewel his car was. It was the same configuration as Mark Smith's car (hell, could even be the same car given the rarity of this model) in black with the lobster interior and all I remember was sitting in the back seat and hearing/feeling the sublime acceleration of this car on the freeway.