Same car, but VERY different!
06-17-2019, 09:44 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Same car, but VERY different!
A buddy with a '95 C2 has been noticing some odd handling issues and asked me to drive the car to see what I thought. For the sake of an all-around comparison, he drove my car as well.
By way of background, both cars are '95 C2's. Both have refreshed suspensions - mine Bilteins with M030 springs and stock roll bars, his Bilsteins with H&R springs and roll bars. Both have the Golden Rod and new bushings. stock shifter. Mine rides on 17" Cup II wheels, his 18" twists. My car has stock exhaust, his Fabspeed. RS motor mounts in my car, C4 in his. 111K miles on mine, 125K on his.
What was very interesting, and immediately apparent to both of us was, the cars feel COMPLETELY different. Nearly like a different model of car rather than a different production of the same vehicle.
His clutch pedal travels probably half the distance of mine, and his shifter has much shorter and direct throws. Both the shifter and clutch operation in my car is smoother but longer and not as precise. HIs exhaust sounds MUCH better. My steering is noticeably more direct with a smaller "dead spot" on center. His car handles better and rolls less (larger/stickier tires, H&R sways), but mine rides more smoothly and, oddly, feels better connected to the road. (Inspection under his car revealed nearly all rear suspension bushings are cracked, torn, and deteriorated. Likey the source of the "loose" handling.) Engine power does feel the same between cars.
Overall, the driving experience between the cars is remarkably different. There are some things I like better about his car, and some of mine I like better. (My buddy feels the same way.) The difference between the clutch and shifter actions is especially puzzling and really has me thinking I need a short shift kit. I have no idea why the clutch travel is so much longer in my car. To my mind, the overall feel of his car is more of a serious and directly connected sports car, acting like a dog bouncing on his toes and ready to run and play. My car in comparison feels more relaxed and calm - still a very nice handling sports car for sure, but lacking the same immediacy of action. The drives turned out to be an unexpected eye-opener - I never would have guessed two cars of the model could feel so different on the road.
By way of background, both cars are '95 C2's. Both have refreshed suspensions - mine Bilteins with M030 springs and stock roll bars, his Bilsteins with H&R springs and roll bars. Both have the Golden Rod and new bushings. stock shifter. Mine rides on 17" Cup II wheels, his 18" twists. My car has stock exhaust, his Fabspeed. RS motor mounts in my car, C4 in his. 111K miles on mine, 125K on his.
What was very interesting, and immediately apparent to both of us was, the cars feel COMPLETELY different. Nearly like a different model of car rather than a different production of the same vehicle.
His clutch pedal travels probably half the distance of mine, and his shifter has much shorter and direct throws. Both the shifter and clutch operation in my car is smoother but longer and not as precise. HIs exhaust sounds MUCH better. My steering is noticeably more direct with a smaller "dead spot" on center. His car handles better and rolls less (larger/stickier tires, H&R sways), but mine rides more smoothly and, oddly, feels better connected to the road. (Inspection under his car revealed nearly all rear suspension bushings are cracked, torn, and deteriorated. Likey the source of the "loose" handling.) Engine power does feel the same between cars.
Overall, the driving experience between the cars is remarkably different. There are some things I like better about his car, and some of mine I like better. (My buddy feels the same way.) The difference between the clutch and shifter actions is especially puzzling and really has me thinking I need a short shift kit. I have no idea why the clutch travel is so much longer in my car. To my mind, the overall feel of his car is more of a serious and directly connected sports car, acting like a dog bouncing on his toes and ready to run and play. My car in comparison feels more relaxed and calm - still a very nice handling sports car for sure, but lacking the same immediacy of action. The drives turned out to be an unexpected eye-opener - I never would have guessed two cars of the model could feel so different on the road.
Last edited by SpeedyC2; 06-17-2019 at 10:18 AM.
06-17-2019, 10:24 AM
#3
A buddy with a '95 C2 has been noticing some odd handling issues and asked me to drive the car to see what I thought. For the sake of an all-around comparison, he drove my car as well.
By way of background, both cars are '95 C2's. Both have refreshed suspensions - mine Bilteins with M030 springs and stock roll bars, his Bilsteins with H&R springs and roll bars. Both have the Golden Rod and new bushings. stock shifter. Mine rides on 17" Cup II wheels, his 18" twists. My car has stock exhaust, his Fabspeed. RS motor mounts in my car, C4 in his. 111K miles on mine, 125K on his.
What was very interesting, and immediately apparent to both of us was, the cars feel COMPLETELY different. Nearly like a different model of car rather than a different production of the same vehicle.
His clutch pedal travels probably half the distance of mine, and his shifter has much shorter and direct throws. Both the shifter and clutch operation in my car is smoother but longer and not as precise. HIs exhaust sounds MUCH better. My steering is noticeably more direct with a smaller "dead spot" on center. His car handles better and rolls less (larger/stickier tires, H&R sways), but mine rides more smoothly and, oddly, feels better connected to the road. (Inspection under his car revealed nearly all rear suspension bushings are cracked, torn, and deteriorated. Likey the source of the "loose" handling.) Engine power does feel the same between cars.
Overall, the driving experience between the cars is remarkably different. There are some things I like better about his car, and some of mine I like better. (My buddy feels the same way.) The difference between the clutch and shifter actions is especially puzzling and really has me thinking I need a short shift kit. I have no idea why the clutch travel is so much longer in my car. To my mind, the overall feel of his car is more of a serious and directly connected sports car, acting like a dog bouncing on his toes and ready to run and play. My car in comparison feels more relaxed and calm - still a very nice handling sports car for sure, but lacking the same immediacy of action. The drives turned out to be an unexpected eye-opener - I never would have guessed two cars of the model could feel so different on the road.
By way of background, both cars are '95 C2's. Both have refreshed suspensions - mine Bilteins with M030 springs and stock roll bars, his Bilsteins with H&R springs and roll bars. Both have the Golden Rod and new bushings. stock shifter. Mine rides on 17" Cup II wheels, his 18" twists. My car has stock exhaust, his Fabspeed. RS motor mounts in my car, C4 in his. 111K miles on mine, 125K on his.
What was very interesting, and immediately apparent to both of us was, the cars feel COMPLETELY different. Nearly like a different model of car rather than a different production of the same vehicle.
His clutch pedal travels probably half the distance of mine, and his shifter has much shorter and direct throws. Both the shifter and clutch operation in my car is smoother but longer and not as precise. HIs exhaust sounds MUCH better. My steering is noticeably more direct with a smaller "dead spot" on center. His car handles better and rolls less (larger/stickier tires, H&R sways), but mine rides more smoothly and, oddly, feels better connected to the road. (Inspection under his car revealed nearly all rear suspension bushings are cracked, torn, and deteriorated. Likey the source of the "loose" handling.) Engine power does feel the same between cars.
Overall, the driving experience between the cars is remarkably different. There are some things I like better about his car, and some of mine I like better. (My buddy feels the same way.) The difference between the clutch and shifter actions is especially puzzling and really has me thinking I need a short shift kit. I have no idea why the clutch travel is so much longer in my car. To my mind, the overall feel of his car is more of a serious and directly connected sports car, acting like a dog bouncing on his toes and ready to run and play. My car in comparison feels more relaxed and calm - still a very nice handling sports car for sure, but lacking the same immediacy of action. The drives turned out to be an unexpected eye-opener - I never would have guessed two cars of the model could feel so different on the road.
Sounds like he may have a golden rod +/- SSK. I recently installed both and the shifting is much more direct, precise and mechanical. He could very well have modified his exhaust. Stock exhaust basically makes no noise.
Alignment and suspension mods make a big difference in any car. The 993 seems even more transparent than others I've owned. I changed out to KWs and RS motor mounts with a fresh alignment to fix the dealer's hack job and the difference in feel is pretty significant.
06-17-2019, 11:18 AM
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not unexpected, different wheel size is huge in the smoothness of ride department. Alignment can make them feel very different. Bleed the clutch and see if it then has a shorter throw and more direct feel
Andy
Andy