DJF1

I think I need to chime a bit in here since it is partly my fault
My motivation for the FAQ is something drawn from my own experiences. To this day I still look for things on the archives trying to find out as much info as possible. When I got my 993 although not a virgin in the Porsche world I wished for a FAQ. Through this board I was directed to Robin's and E.J's site which helped a lot to say the least.
The purpose for reading a FAQ is exactly as stated by Greg. I do not think that anyone would object or mind about a question if someone is confused or uncertain and to me this is where the interaction comes into play. Furthermore somedays it has gotten to the point that the same question was asked many times even on the same topics page!
Now imagine someone actually posting something new or very usefull or actually needs the input of this board and because everytime you post the topic gets bumped up top and there are so many topics in a page, the thread gets lost, gets no attention and moves to the second page...
Who will check the second page? How many times have we seen actually this happening? There have been times that posters have replied to their own post desperately seeking help to bump it up top and hope for attention...Finally how many times have we seen a thread escalate to something really usefull but because there are so many new topics to go through on a daily basis ( if you have time) you end up not checking back that topic again because you run out of time... Maybe for the broadband friends here this is not an issue...me...yeah still on the limited band width!

While I agree with the principal of the "pub" the input and participation of well respected members of this board will always be needed and understandably so answering the same basic question gets tiring and time consuming. How many times Viken can re-write the gear ratios of the G50/21 box for example???

On the other hand you can always ask whatever you please, you have to be the judge of it and the FAQ should not be viewed as a deterent but as a handy usefull pool of opinion, facts and ideas.
You would have to pay big bucks to learn on your own lessons that cost other people a lot of money and have been kind enough to share their lessons with us FOC... This to anyone I think is the most valuable benefit that one can get by participating on this board, that is why it is always appreciated your support by becoming a member. Then you can enjoy a nice cold one with the satisfaction that you have made sound financial desicions and in the process you made some good new friends...

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Dbltime

Consider this. The answers to these repetitive questions change and we have new people and fresh outlooks involved. It is not always nuts and bolts.

I disagree with the search first mentality.

Have a great '03 everyone!

Mark in Baltimore

I think Anir, Ray and Greg make really good points about the search tool. I'm a new member. When I first came onto Rennlist, it took me a few tries, and a few questions, before I realized that I could easily answer my own questions. Yes, there are lazy people and, yes, some of these people have been on Rennlist long enough to know about the search.

Rudeness, however, doesn't have a place here, and I was absolutely dismayed by the anger and hostility that was spit out on one thread. We love cars, we love Porsches and we love 993's and we STILL can't get along??!!

I think *both* sides make valid points but can't we all be nice to each other? We share the same passion, folks. If you don't like the question, ignore it or politely tell the person to use/feel/be the search. They will learn.

Ever since I got my 993, I have been a Rennlist junkie. I just want to know what other people are doing with their cars and love to hear the banter that goes on. I'm learning a ton and I am really grateful for Rennlist's existence but, lately, it has felt less like a friendly place and more filled with "attitude".

Is this what the creators intended?

Okay, I''ve gotta go meet some friends for a beer for real! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Peace, everyone.

Anir

[quote]Originally posted by PeterS:
<strong>But there are various ways to ask a question. One way is to say "Hey, I don't feel like spending any time researching XYZ, can someone else do it for me? And make it snappy!" Don't be surprised if someone gets irate.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> Bingo!

With all due respect to Bill, I don't believe that anyone is saying that you can't ask a question without first checking the FAQ's. As time passes, newer users tend to supplement the ole' reliable members, so there will always be plenty of friendly folks to answer questions. I fully agree with Mark that mutual respect is the key to a pleasant message board (anyone who has ever been to the Roadfly M3 bimmer board knows how distasteful an immature and rude forum can be).

I spent a lot of time on <a href="http://www.p-car.com/" target="_blank">Robin's site</a> when first arriving on the Rennlist scene two years ago, and it was very useful to me. IMO, the FAQ should be viewed as a similar resource.

C4S4ME

Wow! I would like to try to respond. Because the responses are so varied, forgive me if this message doesn't flow as well as my prior attempt.

Greg: I believe we all agree with you. The FAQ and "search" are great tools. The point is that they compliment, but do not supplant discourse through the regular posting of topics (even redundant ones) on the forum itself.

Graham: Bear with my pub analogy - The beauty of the virtual pub, is that if you don't comment, we don't even know you are there, and can't actually walk up and ask you the same question every five minutes. Enjoy your beer in the corner with your friends. When you hear a comment from the bar, and feel you'd like to chime in, then please do. But don't feel like every time some new people strike up a conversation, that they are pestering you personally.

Dan in St Louis: I don't understand about my profile? I changed the settings so people can e-mail me, is that what you meant? If so - send me some mail!

Peter S: I agree. In a perfect world, everyone would preface their comments with politeness, and everyone would respond in kind. The reality is without the benefit of non-verbal communication cues, such as facial expressions, nuance of voice, and context, we are destined to spiral into negativity if we don't learn to treat everyone as if they had in fact used all of the politeness we would have liked.

Ray: I'm sorry, we'll just have to disagree. Rennlist would lose too much if it weren't for the pub-like qualities of a forum: sometimes people just want to communicate, and may not have much new to say.

DJF1: I don't think you are to blame at all. In fact, I saw your FAQ as an attempt to head off exactly some of the nastier discourse that had recently become prevalent. My purpose is to bring to light the concept of forum as gathering place. Just because a senior user has had the conversation before does not preclude others from wanting their own conversation, their own sense of being part of the group.

As an example of a thread that's been beaten to death: Tires - I've owned S-02's and S-03's. I've never commented on them though. But if someone asks tomorrow, maybe I'd like to chime in, maybe I'd like to belong. Ray, yourself, and many others can simply ignore the topic. But maybe - just maybe - some new rennlister can ask, and I can answer, and we can all feel that much more a part of the Porsche family.

Thank you to all for the thoughtful responses.

graham_mitchell

I would like to add 2 further points:

1) DJF1 wrote:
[quote] Now imagine someone actually posting something new or very usefull or actually needs the input of this board and because everytime you post the topic gets bumped up top and there are so many topics in a page, the thread gets lost, gets no attention and moves to the second page...
<hr></blockquote>

This is what I referred to when I said that other forums I am a member of are 'drowning' in repeat posts. I think that this is starting to be an occasional problem here.

Vinny wrote:
[quote]If anyone is "offended" by repetitive questions, then they simply don't have to answer them. <hr></blockquote>

While nice in theory, in practice you can't 'ignore' the consequence that original new threads are sometimes getting overlooked and pushed onto the next page by flood of 'repeat' questions.

Furthermore, the people who refer others to the archives and FAQs are answering the questions! Let us not forget that. There is no virtue in retyping what is already typed.

2) Whatever anyone's point of view, I agree that there is no justification for rudeness!
I have not personally seen any rude responses directing people to the FAQ or archives, though some have seemed a little abrupt.
I usually try and write something like 'the archives are your friend'. Well, they are!!

Graham

STLPCA

[quote]Originally posted by C4S4ME:
<strong>I changed the settings so people can e-mail me, is that what you meant? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Now that's much friendlier & accessible.

Locations are also helpful for sharing/seeking geographically relevant info & some posters even use their real names when hanging out at the pub.

Craig W.

C4S4ME is obviously a previous poster, under a new name, IMO.

His post was far too accurately on the mark to be a random new guy posting for the first time.

Could he be a true Newby poster? Sure he could. However, the odds are very small. He wrote: "I've seen literally dozens of threads in the last several weeks that threaten to make a formerly very friendly environment much less inviting." and "As much as I can appreciate the efforts of the likes of E.J., DFJ1, and many other senior users or Gurus".

I'm extremely skeptical that a casual lurker would achieve the level of familiarlty that those sentences imply in a few weeks of lurking. Heck, I've been around, off and on (3 years? 4?), since Rennlist was email only, and I'm not sure I could post off the top of my head such a complete list of the Search-*****.

He then launches into his pub analogy, which is more of a "pub lecture on how it ought to be".

Conclusion: Experienced participant, pushing his "Anti-Search **** Agenda"!

Conspiracy theory, you know, they are EVERYWHERE!

So all I have to say to C4S4ME is scroll down to the link at the bottom of my signature and click it, all of your answers are there.


<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Harold

Dan and C4S4ME,

Really agree with your comments here.

Actually, if you go onto some of the other Rennlist areas such as the 964 board, where I used to reside, you will find the same old questions being asked again and again, but I dont think once that anyone was chastised for asking the same question twice. If someone didn't find the topic or question being raised to be of interest, they simply would not respond to it.

Indeed, the equivalents of Viken etc on the 964 board (eg Adrian Streather) would gladly provide answers again and again, and once they tired of responding to the same questions, someone else who had learnt from them would chime in. This is what makes the board so accessible to people and encourages them to join in and add their 2 cents....

And if a question gets no responses, I bet that soon enough that person who asked the question will use the search engine to see if they can dig something up (maybe the wrong way around, but hey, live and let live).

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

okindao

See both sides of the argument. As a realtive newbie it seems that some questions have a fac tual specific answer, ie how many quarts of oil, option codes,etc... however some questions such as best tire pressures for street and track use and others like that are subjectively answered.
with a variety of answers !!!!
frankly to me hearing the differences of opinion are refreshing,.

this board has been very useful, informative and enteraining.

the dialogue ,humor and sometimes sarcasm combined with the sincere desire to help another porsche nut serves a great purpose

JimBob Jumpback

[quote]Originally posted by Craig W.:
<strong>C4S4ME is obviously a previous poster, under a new name, IMO.

His post was far too accurately on the mark to be a random new guy posting for the first time.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

U iz a perty smart bubba. yall think dis be da reezun he dunt putin his lokashun onna hiz postys?

hay c4esse bubba, wear yall frum?

James_J

Any forum like this, when it is new, will, if well-designed (like this one), soon become vibrant with new questions flowing thick and fast. After some time, the inevitable happens and the opportunity for new questions dimishes because most items have been discussed before.

If the forum is not to slowly die, then some repetition is inevitable to keep the "conservation" flowing, otherwise all the forum will ultimately do is generate a (very useful) knowledge base.

993RS

With so many members, you will never get a consensus of opinion on what the forum should be like. The forum is getting very big and clash of personalities is inevitable - like in a pub...

Dudley

C4S4ME,

Well said.

Dave

Jeff 993TT

I'm in the process of creating a faq for the 993 and will have some more information shortly.

This faq will be categorized, searchable, and have links back to rennlist for the gory details. The information that I am trying to present will be predigested to a certain extent.

Jeff