Notices
993 Forum 1995-1998
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Help, To varioram or not that is the Q?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-14-2004, 01:01 AM
  #1  
pf993
Track Day
Thread Starter
 
pf993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Help, To varioram or not that is the Q?

I have been negotiating on a 95 and someone raised the issue of the more powerful 96+ 993's. Is there a meaningful difference between the two with and without. Are there any advantages to not having it? Help a newbie.
Old 02-14-2004, 01:26 AM
  #2  
max911
Rennlist Member
 
max911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada - West
Posts: 1,883
Received 153 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

a '95 with a chip will be very close to the '96 and up car's performance.
(a '95 car is OBD I, while 96 and later are OBD II and not as easy to chip)

plus, a 95 will help keep you away from a check engine light /failed emmisions test caused by the secondary air injection ports being clogged.

spend some time with the "search" function on the top right of the page.

happy reading!!

max

Edit: the above assumes that you are in N. America
Old 02-14-2004, 05:54 PM
  #3  
Glen
Race Car
 
Glen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 4,878
Received 59 Likes on 43 Posts
Default

No.
Old 02-14-2004, 06:09 PM
  #4  
Jeff
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I've driven 95's and 97's -- I'm a weekend driver, no track skills, I can't tell the difference.
Old 02-14-2004, 08:10 PM
  #5  
STLPCA
Addict & Guru
Rennlist Member

 
STLPCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,897
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

I've found a noticeable improvement in lower rpm punch w/the varioram cars. BTW, perusing the shop manual reveals a number of other changes after MY95. Some good, some not.
Old 02-14-2004, 08:39 PM
  #6  
Rohan Nath
Racer
 
Rohan Nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'm with Dan....at lower rpm's there is a perceptible difference. If you compare the torque curves you'll see why.

The price delta and inventory that you come across might be the deciding factor. And if you choose the MY95 you can always just stay in high revs.
Old 02-14-2004, 10:36 PM
  #7  
prscha
Advanced
 
prscha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: san rafael, california. hometown cohasset, ma
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

there is nothing like a varioram "blip" at about 4200 rpms, increased power is felt and with the porsche motorsound airbox its nothing but AWESOME.
i would recommend a varioram car over non
Old 02-14-2004, 10:52 PM
  #8  
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
RL Technical Advisor
 
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 11,871
Likes: 0
Received 64 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

FWIW,....Each and every engine we have dyno'ed with and without shows a 30-35 lb-ft improvement in torque from 2000 to 5000 RPM with Varioram.

Peak power remained the same, but the low and mid-range punch was very different.

We did several 3.6 and 3.8 identical engines; some with the plastic manifold and some with the Varioram one and then overlaid the dyno graphs. Its pretty obvious what that thing does and I can really feel the difference in the car.

That said, a good chip in a '95 helps bridge that gap.
Old 02-15-2004, 12:24 AM
  #9  
Speedraser
Three Wheelin'
 
Speedraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I've driven both. Like Steve's figures indicate, you can feel the difference in low- and mid-rpm torque. However, all-out performance through the gears is basically identical. The '95s are just as quick as the Varioram cars, but you have to use the gearbox more. FWIW, the quickest standing-start acceleration figures I've seen for 993s in the magazine road tests were for '95s. I always like to mention that since I have a '95 . Perhaps the only real "advantage" of the non-Varioram is that you don't have to deal with the OBD II clogged port CEL issue, which is significant IMO.

Steve, are you saying that your dyno shows peak hp to be the same for the '95 vs. the Varioram cars? I ask since the claim is 270 vs. 282 hp.
Old 02-15-2004, 04:29 AM
  #10  
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
RL Technical Advisor
 
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 11,871
Likes: 0
Received 64 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

Hi Todd:

Porsche rated the OBD-I cars at 272 HP and the OBD-II Varioram ones at 285 HP.

I see those ratings and have no real world explanations for it.

We did several modified 3.6's and 3.8's that were identical except for intake system and the peak power was within 5 HP,.....(our Superflow 800 HP engine dyno's resolution is 2 HP).

Now,..."Area under the curve" was very different though, and the torque differences made the V-Ram cars tire burners compared to their non V-Ram cousins.

It appears that using the larger RS valves and cams (all timed the same) helps close the gap at peak RPM assuming comparable software.

One big advantage to the OBD-I, '95 car is the ease of software changes (less expensive, too) and optimization of each engine's configuration.

Last edited by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems; 02-15-2004 at 08:55 PM.
Old 02-15-2004, 12:29 PM
  #11  
Speedraser
Three Wheelin'
 
Speedraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Thanks, Steve. BTW, I believe the 270/282 figures are SAE, while the 272/285 are DIN, yes?
Old 02-15-2004, 08:54 PM
  #12  
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
RL Technical Advisor
 
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 11,871
Likes: 0
Received 64 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

Hi Todd:

LOL,...That sounds about right. I went by the factory manuals and literature I have here.
Old 04-01-2004, 04:30 AM
  #13  
GabiOsz
Burning Brakes
 
GabiOsz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 985
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Question

I know this may sound like a stupid question, but can you retrofit the Vario Ram manifold onto a 1995 plastic manifold car?
Old 04-01-2004, 11:32 AM
  #14  
DJF1
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
DJF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burlington CANADA
Posts: 7,115
Received 65 Likes on 27 Posts
Default

Originally posted by GabiOsz
I know this may sound like a stupid question, but can you retrofit the Vario Ram manifold onto a 1995 plastic manifold car?
Yes, but you will need to reprogram your ECU and have a harness with the additional plug for the varioram. If you did the harness recall recently you may actually have such a harness, but the ecu for sure has to be redone unless you can find a 96+ ecu and swap.
Old 04-01-2004, 12:51 PM
  #15  
Jim Morton
Three Wheelin'
 
Jim Morton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

FWIW:

I worked out this conversion on a MY95. There are many little changes needed to be done in order to get the Vram plenum down onto the engine. Most of the changes are to the secondary air injection system as the pump needs to be relocated. Also, the cruise control servo moves and requires different linkage.

Good news is that if you had the Wiring Harness recall performed, PCNA used a "universal" harness for the MY95 and MY96 cars so the wiring for the vacuum control solenoids is present.

If anyone wants to know more, feel free to e-mail me.

Regards



Quick Reply: Help, To varioram or not that is the Q?



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:06 PM.