crb8783

So I'm getting wildly diverging quotes to replace the valve guides on my '96 993, and I would be grateful for a sanity check for those of you who've had this done before. The shop in CA that originally diagnosed it said $20-$25K. I live in Austin, TX and expected to pay less here, and am getting quoted $4K, $10K and $10-15K by three different shops. I don't know what to believe. Thoughts, recommendations?

pp000830

What symptom caused you to conclude you need valve guides replaced as the need is always suspect?
How many miles on the car?
How to compare quotes:

• A quote should include a bill of materials parts list and cost;
• A list of costs for any outside machine work;
• A list of hours for each aspect of the work and an hourly rate;
• For something like this a list of contingent costs that may arise during work for example replacing hydraulic lifter cartridges.

Any vendor should be able to provide the above information. If not willing find someone else.
With this information, you can compare what is being done and at what cost comparatively.

goofballdeluxe

One doesn't merely replace valve guides; they are done as part of a comprehensive overhaul of the top end of the engine. Also, one usually opts to fix other things "as long as you're in there". The costs can add up.

For a good job done by a reputable builder, plus the go-ahead from you to fix whatever other wear items may need repairing/replacing, I'd say, depending on where you live, who does the work and how much new stuff you need, you're looking at probably $10K at the very least and you easily could double that number. I did a complete engine rebuild, top and bottom end, with new valve guides 2 years ago, and gave the go ahead to a very reputable shop here in CA to do anything and everything that needed any attention at all; basically a complete mechanical restoration of the car. I didn't need a clutch since I had already put a new one in a few years previous, but I had them fix or replace anything and everything that was either 22 years old and/or worn. It cost me $20K total out the door, so your quote of $20K-$25K from your shop is pretty spot on. I left there with a car that has basically cost me nothing since, with 7500 more miles on it. I suspect with any luck I'll be able to go several years before I have a major expense as a result. For me, it was money well spent.

If you only do the valve guides as part of a top-end rebuild and decide to, say, not replace the mostly worn clutch and various other 22 year old wear items that might need replacing soon, you might be able to subtract a few thousand off that number now. And then add many more thousands soon enough when you need to address the stuff you shoulda done while the engine was out.

I recommend if you go in, do everything then and bite the bullet and open your wallet

Toddster

I did a top end rebuild to address the exhaust valve guides in July of 2015
It cost me around 13K
I did the clutch at the same time included in that price

IainM

crb8783

Thank you everyone for the quick and comprehensive replies! You guys are great, and I really appreciate it! You make great points in that the cost depends on what they find when they open it up. As such, I think it's best to work with a shop that has deep expertise with these motors, and the latter two quoting in the $10-$15K range gave me that confidence. And it seems to be in line with your experiences. Yes, and I agree with you Goofballdeluxe, best to go in and do at all at once and not have to worry for years. Although it is a low mileage car, it is 23 years old, and who knows what might have decayed, corroded or worn out in that period.

Meenrod

Which shops are you talking to in Austin? I live in San Antonio.

crb8783

European Motorwerks, TPWS, and Moorespeed. Any others I should consider?

Meenrod

Yes, try Jones Autowerks in SA.

They are a Porsche air-cooled specialist and are very fair regarding pricing.

On a side note I was there last week and saw a 959 in for a service. Very cool.

crb8783

I'll give them a shout. Thanks!

Yes, that's an amazing car!

Meenrod

No worries. Let me know how you get on. Cheers

Quadcammer

You base these figures on what?

$30k for a rebuild that will last? Why wouldn't a prudent $20k rebuild last?

A basic rebuild with no billet heads, special cams, etc is not going to cost $30k....even with new P&C, and it will last just fine.

TheOtherEric

cobalt

A basic simple bare bones top end shouldn't run more than $5500 possibly $6k for just the top end not including R&I engine. Most shops charge considerably more. The problem is most of these engines have more issues than realized when opened up. It all depends on what is needed. You can easily spend more than $10k on parts and labor but the question, Is it all needed? I am currently rebuilding my 993 engine and at 40k miles my barrels were out of round so they needed to be chemically stripped, nicasil plated and honed. This runs around $1100 +/- also valves were hardened so all needed to be replaced but all my intake valves were to spec and exhaust all needed replacement. Head studs need to be replaced since they are stretch to yield so I chose to use ARP for a slight up charge. These are not Stretch bolts so can be used again. There are some great sources for parts and if you opt for Porsche factory the prices jump to ludicrous levels. Odds are you will find they are the same as the less expensive parts with Porsche label on it. I have a friend who has been building Porsche engines since the 60's and will do a full factory spec rebuild for me for under $8k assuming it has no major needs. This includes all inspections and basic machining. Odds are it will cost more but it can be done and I have never seen his engines come back for leaks or issues after years and many thousands of miles.

There is no set price. A lot of the big name shops will build you a great engine and charge a fortune because they can. Although IMO if you are doing a top end with any engine this old you might as well opt for a full engine rebuild. Cars sit and loose lubrication. Cold start after sitting for months can wear vital parts and chains can stretch so IMO it is smarter to do a full rebuild unless it is clear the rest of the engine is sound. There are some great upgrades to bearings and things you should consider if you are going for a full rebuild. It can get very expensive so just a suggestion but make sure you need a top end before you opt for it. You might find once you open the engine you are at $20k with machining and other issues or you spent a lot for a simple fix.

GL

Don Magee

Meenrod,
Moorespeed has a ton of experience with air cooled cars, and the quality of their work is superb.