ZCAT3

My wife and I are considering a BMW M5 as a second daily driver (and perhaps ocassional DE car). We are also considering the new Volvo S60R. If we go with an M5 it would be a used one - probably 1999 - 2001. I was wondering if anyone here has any feedback on this car. Other than having one blow by me on the track I do not have any experience with them. I am going to test drive one today.

P.S. We test drove the new Mercedes E55 last weekend and it was impressive. Acceleration is very strong - it does feel like it could beat a 993TT to 60 (the claimed time is 4.2 seconds). Nonetheless it was a little too sterile for what we want.

Suwipin

Hi Bob,

A fellow local Rennlister (Pong) owns an E39 M5. I think he can provide you with some feedback. His email address is chunpng@pacbell.net

Also, a local car enthusiast (Greg) wrote this review on his M5 vs. his 996TT:

http://www.heumann.com/comparo/index.html

I myself have driven the E39 M5 a few times and I've always been impressed with that car.

CP

Hi Bill,

This is Pong. Nice meeting you at Bob's house last Saturday. When you mentioned that you were going to test drive an E55 then, I did not think fast enough to suggest you consider an M5. It just happens that my daily driver is an M5 (the RUF is now my weekend toy). So here's my take on the M5.

I have the car since April 01, and now has 50k miles on it. It is the most competent long-distance car I have ever owned/driven. Performance numbers aside, the car is really awesome in terms of ride quality and road feel, two attributes the E55 sorely lacks. The M5 grips the road and feel planted, even at very high speed (I only had it up to 167 MPH, once in a closed Malaysian circuit ). The car pulls real strong even then. While it is not a Porsche, it corners with competence. Unfortunately, being a 4,000# 4-door sedan designed for autobahn storming, it still 'feels' a little ponderous on high speed turns. I just put Ground Control coilovers on mine, so it handles much better than stock now. The most amazing thing to me is the torque, 386 ft-lb. with 80% available from 2,500 RPM on. This car pulls in any speed, in any gear. Just incredible. The 6 speed rows very nicely, something again lacking in the E55. The seats are very supportive, just short of the Recaro's in my RUF. I know you will test drive an M5 soon, however, if you need a car for a longer period to go over your favorite roads, you can drive mine.

I have also driven the 04 E55 at Infineon during the AMG Challenge. The car has immense torque, and will no doubt beat the M5 in any acceleration categories. It may even beat the M5 on the same track, as it is a very competent car as well. It has awesome brakes. However, three items kept me from lusting after this car: steering feel (very lame), automatic transmission (you can shift it like the steptronics, but the shift delay is very noticeable), and finally: steering effort (it's numb and entirely TOO light).

One thought about track duties, both the M5 and the E55 can give very good track times (especially with suspension mods). However, neither one will drive like a sports car, so it is probably ultimately unsatisfying in the total driving experience on a track. While I do not track (yet) I realize the only way to get that sports car 'feel' is to get a Porsche, or similar light, low, and grippy cars, thus the RUF. However, if your other consideration is a Volvo, then the M5 is the clear winner, at least in my book. I love this car.

The M5 price is way down in the basement right now, so you should be able to find a good one on the cheap. Good luck. Please feel free to contact me for test-drive or other questions.

CP

ZCAT3

Thanks for the feedback guys. I only wish the M5 got better mileage -

Pong - if you know of any M5s for sale in good shape at a reasonable price let me know. The car I am going to see today is a 2000 model with 47K on the ODO and is priced at $47K. I think this is a tad high for the market, but not too far off.

Temple

You can also get good information and leads on cars for sale at the M5 Discussion Board.

CP

Bill,

My life-time gas consumption on my M5 is 18.5 MPG. I don't think it's too bad for a V-8, but that also means I'm not having enough fun with it.

Is the one you are looking at private party? or certified pre-owned? If it's CPO, it's not too bad as you'll have 100k miles warranty with it. It actually is a two way sword. If you mod your car, the warranty may be void, but a BMW 100k miles warranty on a car like the M5 make s me sleep better at night. BTW, mine is NOT CPO.

I will keep an eye out for you. Any color preferences?

CP

ZCAT3

Pong - the car is at a used car dealer in Burlingame, so I assume it is not certified. I may be able to work something with a dealer to get it certified though as I know people have done this with Porsches (basically have the dealer buy the car and certify it and then sell it to me at a slight mark-up for their time). Silver is my preference, but the blue ones look nice as well. No black (too hard to keep clean), red (too flashy) or white.

David in LA

I just picked up an Audi S6 which is an interesting alternative if you don't want to go the SUV route. Not as fast or tight as an M5 or E55, but the idea of a 340hp wagon is appealing and it has an auto trans. Audis in general take a huge depreciation hit so I would not buy new or look to keep the car for only a few years. You can find a low mileage ones that are just a few years old relatively cheaply...if price is an issue look at a 2000-01 A6 with the 4.2 V8.

YellowC4S

There's also the Audi RS6 to consider...

ZCAT3

I actually asm not interested in Audi. I have driven them - the Audi Allroad and a 300 HP wagon they also had (A6 Avant??) - and they drive great. I was totally turned off by the people I dealt with, however. No big deal - but I prefer the BMW. They look to hold their value better as well.

We just test drove the M5 - very nice car. Exceptional fit and finish and build quality (at least from what I saw). Nice strong acceleration, but not the push back of the E55. The car was clean but had previously been smoked in. That could be a deal breaker right there if they cannot get the smell out.

CP

Hi Bill,

If you will spring for a few more bucks, I'd suggest going with a 2001 MY. It has the most enhancements from year to year. In 2001, you get a larger NAV screen, a better steering wheel, angel eyes, (the circular head light rings, real cool) less oil consumption issues (some 00s have that depending on built-date), and generally a debugged car.

Here is a cursory look at today's Auto-traders on silver M5s, and there are some good deals there. There's one 2001 MY with CPO warranty for $40k on page 2. Looks interesting. happy hunting.

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/r...first_record=1

I also have a good friend, Ron O'Burn, who is a wholesale broker with access to Manheim and Hi-Line auctions. He can locate high end cars at broker auctions and can possibly save you thousands over retails. Of course, that would be without CPO. If you're interested, I can put you in touch with Ron.

Let me know if you want to drive my car.

CP

Steve 96C4S

Unfortunately that M5 on page 2 is a 2000, not a 2001 (so it doesn't have the widescreen Nav and other nice upgrades and debuggings of the 2001 model yr). If I could get a Certified 2001 M5 for $40k, I might be tempted away from buying the 2001 740i Imola Red Sport that I'm searching for...
Good luck!

ZCAT3

Well I just stumbled into a 2000 M5 in silver with 63K on the odo. It comes with a 100,000 mile certified BMW warranty. The owner agreed to $39,900 subject to a PPI. It has new tires, new brake pads and calipers, and a new clutch (all stuff I was concerned about in the car I test drove the other day).

After looking at the M5, however, I started wondering if an M3 would be just as suitable for my purposes. I could get a nice older model M3 (say a 97) in the 20K range. Or - should I just pull the trigger on the M5 above - the warranty and recent service items are a nice plus.

Pong - are you out there?

CP

Bill,

Top of the morning to you.

I seriousely considered an M3 before buying the M5. It comes down to how important is torque to you. With the M5, you have torque everywhere, which can spoil you real easily. In an M3, you have to rev high for the torque. To me, torque is like garage door openers, once I had one, I'd miss it sorely if it goes away. The M3 in stock form 'feels' a little more like a sports car than the M5. They actually have similar slalom and emergency lane change numbers. However, the M5 will feel less' confident' in turns. That could be easily fixed with suspension mods.

The 97 E36 M3 is a great car. I believe it was regarded as one of the best handling cars ever, regardless of price tags. It's rack and pinion steering has perfect boost for the unreal steering feel. What it lacks would be both HP and torque. Although a Dinan Stage 2 SC system would cure that quite nicely. However, if that breaks, it's major $$$$ to repair. Generally , the E36 M3s are not cheap to upkeep/repair. Also, for long distance driving, the M5 wins hands down.

Back to the M5 that you referred to, it's a real deal at $39,900. The CPO warranty is icing on the cake. I would say go for the M5 if the PPI comes out, you will not regret it. After you got it, throw on a coil over suspension and you'll be the king of the road.

Did you get my e-mail last night about getting together?

CP

ZCAT3

Hi Pong - thanks for the feedback. I did not get your e-mail for some reason. Well I have until noon to decide on the M5. If I do this I then need to unload my 87 Carrera.

As an aside - how important are records for M5s? I do not think the owner has complete records and the owners manual was lost by the owner prior to him.