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It was time for a brake & clutch slave bleed, so I thought I would conduct an experiment using the PIWIS (KTS650), I recently purchased...I bled the braking and clutch slave systems in a typical fashion using a Motive Power Bleeder, bleeding an additional pint of fresh fluid through the system.
Subsequently, I hooked up the PIWIS, under the subheading of ABS/ABD, and used the "bleed" command 3 times, and then went back under the car and re-bled the clutch slave...
Back in 2013, I bled the brakes and clutch slave with my last can of ATE Super Blue; and have since bled the system twice with the golden colored, ATE 200...
I wish I would have taken a photo of the bleed results after exercising the bleed command of the ABS/ABD system with the PIWIS, because the blue/black fluid that bled through the clutch slave system, was a fugly sight to behold!
To the SoCal Rennlist community, or any out-of-staters, who happened to be in the SoCal area, I am offering, for a very reasonable fee, ($40), (to help offset a very expensive, Porsche specific diagnostic tool), to bleed your ABS/ABD system, if you are soon going to be bleeding your brakes.
The service I am offering is only to bleed the ABS ABD system within the brake system, and does not include a brake or clutch slave bleed of the vehicle . (964/993/996...)
Interesting. I presume it actuates circuits within the ABS valve body and thus allows fluid to pass that otherwise remains locked in?
I've flushed my brake & clutch circuits annually for 12 years and continue to have a very firm brake pedal and a smooth clutch action. This with a Motive bleeder. Installing my remote clutch slave setup a few years ago has made this annoying task a joy.
Interesting. I presume it actuates circuits within the ABS valve body and thus allows fluid to pass that otherwise remains locked in?
I've flushed my brake & clutch circuits annually for 12 years and continue to have a very firm brake pedal and a smooth clutch action. This with a Motive bleeder. Installing my remote clutch slave setup a few years ago has made this annoying task a joy.
Andreas
/QUOTE]
Andreas,
Yes, you can easily hear the ABS/ABD valves cycling... it sounds like your brake pedal feels, when the ABS actuates...
I wouldn't say "locked in", but unless the ABS/ABD systems are actuated just prior to a brake, clutch slave bleed, I would say your understanding is the same as mine and would certainly explain the ugliness that I saw after exercising the system with the PIWIS.
I too, bleed my brakes and clutch slave religiously, albeit every two years and also with the Motive Power bleeder. Just like you, I have a very fluid feeling clutch pedal along with a firm brake.
With no known history, I had my '96 40k mile C4S at the dealer over two years ago for this procedure. Something close to mud came out........YUCK!
Process completed and car available for pickup. Clutch pedal then drifted to the floor. New clutch m/c & slave installed but no hose in the country! "Car Down" order went in and I got a loaner for a week.
This is definitely something to stay up on as part of your vehicle's maintenance!
Just curious about something. How much time was there between the first and second bleed with the PiWiS? I've seen fluid dyed black within a day or two when a new soft line and slave were installed. Outside of the reservoir in the front trunk, the clutch and brake hydraulic lines are completely independent. So I don't see how actuating the ABS locks would affect the fluid coming from slave cylinder?
It was time for a Brake & Clutch Slave bleed, so I thought I would conduct an experiment using the PIWIS (KTS650), I recently purchased...I bled the braking and clutch slave systems in a typical fashion using a Motive Power Bleeder, bleeding a pint of fresh fluid through the system.
Subsequently, I hooked up the PIWIS, under the subheading of ABS/ABD, and used the "bleed" command 3 times, and then went back under the car and re-bled the clutch slave...
Back in 2013, I bled the brakes and clutch slave with my last can of ATE, super blue; and have since bled the system twice with the golden colored, ATE 200...
I wish I would have taken a photo of the bleed results after exercising the bleed command of the ABS/ABD system with the PIWIS, because the blue/black fluid that bled through the clutch slave system, was a fugly sight to behold!
To the SoCal Rennlist community, or any out-of-staters, who happened to be in the SoCal area, I am offering, for a very reasonable fee, ($40), (to help offset a very expensive, Porsche specific diagnostic tool), to bleed your ABS/ABD system, if you are soon going to be bleeding your brakes.
The service I am offering is only to bleed the ABS ABD system within the brake system, and does not include a brake or clutch slave bleed of the vehicle . (964/993/996...)
Paul,
Does the PIWIS (KTS650) only work on OBD2 cars?
No sir, I just finished doing a 95 OBD1 car and per the list of vehicles on the software GUI screen of choices, it will also accomdate diagnostics for a 964. Does anyone know if the 964 with OBD1, came equipped with ABS, ABD systems? I didn't think ABD became available until the 993.
Just curious about something. How much time was there between the first and second bleed with the PiWiS? I've seen fluid dyed black within a day or two when a new soft line and slave were installed. Outside of the reservoir in the front trunk, the clutch and brake hydraulic lines are completely independent. So I don't see how actuating the ABS locks would affect the fluid coming from slave cylinder?
Jason,
This is my first bleed using the PIWIS, but as previously mentioned, I do a brake fluid flush every two years.
I'm only reporting the results I have witnessed when bleeding the ABS and ABD systems after I completely bled the brakes and clutch slave with fresh fluid, as outlined in my OP.
After actuating the ABS/ABD bleed function on the PIWIS, I re-bled each caliper and the clutch slave. It was only the clutch slave cylinder bleed that produced the blue/blackish nastiness, where only clear fresh fluid was being bled previously.
All this being said, how do you suppose the ATE Super Blue got into the ABS/ABD system upon my initial brake/clutch slave bleed with the ATE Super Blue fluid?
Any chance for a video of the procedure? I'd subscribe to your YouTube channel . . .
Al,
I don't think the procedure is video worthy...
Step 1.
I did a fresh flush/bleed of the brake and clutch slave cylinders.
Step 2.
I hooked up the PIWIS and used the ABS/ABD bleed function.
Step 3.
To examine the results of the PIWIS, ABS/ABD bleed function; I re-bled each caliper on all four corners, followed by rebleeding the clutch slave.
Hello -
I stopped at my mechanic's shop today to find a '96 993 with 28k miles in for ABS service. Look what he found.
BTW a new ABS pump is $7,500. now.
Thanks for the tips Paul.
Best,
Al
.
Al,
Again you have proven positive that a picture is worth a thousand words! Those waxy clumps can't possibly do any good within a braking/hydraulic system...
I have read that DOT 3 brake fluid, will dissolve the wax within a period of (unknown) time... I also read that rubbing alcohol will dissolve the wax immediately, and the system should be flushed with alcohol.
Personally, I would refute flushing a hydraulic system with an alcohol that contains so much water (30%)! Not a good idea when refilling the system with a hydroscopic fluid.
06-04-2018, 08:32 PM
Brake/Clutch Slave/ABS/ABD System Bleed
