How to reduce oversteer?
06-20-2018, 11:52 PM
#31
Drifting
Here is my 2nd time on the track with what looks an excessive overseer...but really just me going proper speed (too fast for my skill level at the time) and not recognizing when to correct. Today (after 3 years of doing this) this would be a non-issue.
06-21-2018, 01:37 AM
#32
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
06-21-2018, 09:55 AM
#33
Drifting
I’m talking about still being hard on the brakes at turn in to get rear to rotate. It’s not easy to do...after 3 years I was still strugling in 993 to go fast enough for the corner to trailbrake hard enough. I haven’t done autox in a long time but can imapgine using brakes much.
06-21-2018, 01:31 PM
#34
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
you trailbrake miata with oversized hoosiers on autoX course? must be a really big autox course.
I’m talking about still being hard on the brakes at turn in to get rear to rotate. It’s not easy to do...after 3 years I was still strugling in 993 to go fast enough for the corner to trailbrake hard enough. I haven’t done autox in a long time but can imapgine using brakes much.
Still, trailbraking is constantly used by faster autocross drivers in great majority of cars. You just can't drive fast without it. As a matter of fact the tighter the turns are, the more trailbraking helps. And, yes, I'm in a stock-engined Miata on 275 A7s. However, I occasionally flog my 993 through an autocross day on Dunlop ZII Starspecs. Can't drive that thing without trailbraking - it's not sensitive enough to the steering wheel and too heavy.large to turn otherwise as it's 1,000+ lbs heavier than a Miata. No, you don;t have to be "hard" on the brakes That's what I'm saying - autocross is a much more dynamic thing than track. Fairly light brake application and steering wheel input will produce trailbraking on an autocross course. Usually you can rotate the car just by lifting on the turn-in. Speeds are slower, but the angles are much tighter. As I've mentioned, I haven't found a way to control a 993 at autocross other than with the right foot.
06-21-2018, 04:59 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Looks like you had a lot of fun at the AX, Samurai.
Glad the new tires helped. What you describe now sounds like the way a 993 behaves by default. That is, it wants to understeer, not oversteer. You need to do a weight shift (lift, trail brake, etc) to plant the front end. Since you're doing the AX thing with GGR, I'll just throw this out there. The club will be at Laguna in just a few weeks. It's not the same as AX, but it will give you a lot of opportunity to experience the stuff Nile and NYC are talking about over and over again. T2 at Laguna is a fun turn to practice your trail braking. I'll likely be there in the E46 BMW, but may bring the 993 this time.
Glad the new tires helped. What you describe now sounds like the way a 993 behaves by default. That is, it wants to understeer, not oversteer. You need to do a weight shift (lift, trail brake, etc) to plant the front end. Since you're doing the AX thing with GGR, I'll just throw this out there. The club will be at Laguna in just a few weeks. It's not the same as AX, but it will give you a lot of opportunity to experience the stuff Nile and NYC are talking about over and over again. T2 at Laguna is a fun turn to practice your trail braking. I'll likely be there in the E46 BMW, but may bring the 993 this time.
06-22-2018, 12:36 AM
#36
Drifting
NILE is spot on.
Short of the long ... keep the car settled. it's all done on the entry braking at variable pressure (med-hard-med), quickly getting back on throttle (throttle control) to settle the car, and then exit speed.
Practice-Practice-Practice
The 993 isn't an easy car to master, but it teaches you a ton. You can literally feel what's happening as you change inputs.
Short of the long ... keep the car settled. it's all done on the entry braking at variable pressure (med-hard-med), quickly getting back on throttle (throttle control) to settle the car, and then exit speed.
Practice-Practice-Practice
The 993 isn't an easy car to master, but it teaches you a ton. You can literally feel what's happening as you change inputs.
06-22-2018, 06:55 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback everyone
I was going through a few more videos and found one where I got the back end around after turn in. This was one of my afternoon ones with a different (more helpful) instructor and I remember he was yelling at me when to brake, turn, gas, accelerate. Looks like I don't get the car around enough though. Next month I have another ax event at this site so have more seat time coming up!
@mpruden I'm out of town for the next DE event a Laguna. I'll PM you when I can make it next.
I was going through a few more videos and found one where I got the back end around after turn in. This was one of my afternoon ones with a different (more helpful) instructor and I remember he was yelling at me when to brake, turn, gas, accelerate. Looks like I don't get the car around enough though. Next month I have another ax event at this site so have more seat time coming up!
@mpruden I'm out of town for the next DE event a Laguna. I'll PM you when I can make it next.
06-22-2018, 02:15 PM
#38
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Samurai, look carefully at that last video. Put it on pause and go frame by frame.
Try to see where you _started_ to turn in (hint - it's very late). What happened in mid-turn? The car went sideways, you've countersteered. Part of it is trail braking, possibly. Part is late and way too hard of an input. Probably some gas pedal lifting, too. You need to smooth things out, relax a bit and let the car relax. It's not about yanking it sideways or jumping on the pedals. It's (in the beginning, anyway) about the earliest and smoothest inputs possible. One thing to remember - the pedals are not digital switches. Don't hit them. Squeeze them gently. And the only difference between the slow and fast autocross drivers? The fast ones finish all the other stuff and start squeezing the gas pedal earlier than slower ones.
One other comment.. You are a mile away from the cones. Which would be OK if you found an apex and got close to it. So, a mental exercise. Try to find an apex on this video and see what you did to get close to it, if anything.
Finally, if you take instructor's yelling well, ask them to yell. it's usually pretty effective.
Try to see where you _started_ to turn in (hint - it's very late). What happened in mid-turn? The car went sideways, you've countersteered. Part of it is trail braking, possibly. Part is late and way too hard of an input. Probably some gas pedal lifting, too. You need to smooth things out, relax a bit and let the car relax. It's not about yanking it sideways or jumping on the pedals. It's (in the beginning, anyway) about the earliest and smoothest inputs possible. One thing to remember - the pedals are not digital switches. Don't hit them. Squeeze them gently. And the only difference between the slow and fast autocross drivers? The fast ones finish all the other stuff and start squeezing the gas pedal earlier than slower ones.
One other comment.. You are a mile away from the cones. Which would be OK if you found an apex and got close to it. So, a mental exercise. Try to find an apex on this video and see what you did to get close to it, if anything.
Finally, if you take instructor's yelling well, ask them to yell. it's usually pretty effective.