D.G..

H20NOO said:

"I may visit The Racer's Group for alignment and corner balancing after I install my PSS-9's."

H20NOO,

I had an allignment and corner ballance done at TRG about 18 months ago.
Their allignment 'rig' consisted of two long poles attached to each other at each end with equal length strings. They positioned one pole in front of the car and one behind the car and then stretched the strings taught. The strings kept the poles parallel. The expert technicians then used a ruler to measure the allignment. Do I need to continue?

when the time comes I would recommend that you drive down to Custom Alligment in Mountan View for a professional alligment job.

Sorry for the rant.

Dave

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Hey Dave, I hate to burst your rant bubble, but if that method is good enough for TRG's 24 hour Race cars and G&Ws $250k RS and the championship winning GT3 team, it ought to be good enough for your street car.





Did you actually find a mistake with this method?

E. J.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Dave:

E.J. is right on the money,...this is accepted practice for trackside alignments and if done by experienced & competant people, its OK.

I started racing sports cars in 1966 and have always carried trammel bars and string to the track to cover the possibility of a "shunt" or some kind of correction.

Now then, IMHO, this is no substitute for a real alignment rack with the proper shop equipment to precisely measure and adjust all the alignment parameters, especially,......especially on a 993 or 996.

Apples & Oranges, really.

Needless to say, the shop rack and Hunter gear isn't too portable, so being that "Necessity is the Mother of Invention", bars and string are just fine for this purpose.

Now that I've inadvertedly dated myself, I'll pipe down,....

D.G.

E.J.,

Actually, my problem with Kevin at TRG is much more serious than the mickey-mouse allignment he does.

My original mistake was believing what Kevin told me about the equipment he sold me. He talked me out of an ROW-M030 setup and into a JRZ single adjustable setup with TRG sway bars.

He said the JRZ setup would be a great substitute and could be adjusted to give an equivalent ride, including ride height, and have the advantage of being fully adjustable! WRONG! 1) The compression damping of JRZ single is non adjustable, and is setup for the track. It is much harsher than the M030 2) The shaft of the JRZ is too short to be setup at ROW=M030 height. 3) The springs that he put on were MUCH too soft for the JRZ compression damping, and rattled against the strut body. 4) When setup to ROW-M030 ride height the struts run out of rebound travel on even the slightest bump. Three of the 4 struts lost their nitrogen charge within 6 weeks.

For and additional $382 Kevin replaced the springs with another type that were equally as bad. I now realize that prior to my car he had only put those struts on seriously lowered track or street/track cars.

Since I live 80 miles away I watched while the suspension was installed. The mechanic tried to take a shortcut while removing the left rear hub by removing the nut from only one end of the lower stabilizer bar. Not realizing the customer was standing behind him, he pounded on the arm with a BIG hammer trying to force it off the hub. Another mechanic then showed this numb-nut the proper way to dis-assemble the parts.

I had them do an oil change while they were at it. After pouring the last of the oil in, the mechanic realized that he was standing in a half quart puddle of oil. He didn't know that the oil backs up in the filler tube during the last 2 or 3 quarts.

To this day my car still has a dent in the fender above the front left wheel where their mechanic tossed a wrench while doing the work. It used to have scratches on both fenders where the protective matt (with tools in the pockets)was dragged across the paint.

Are you impressed by the money they spent on that $250K RS? Have you ever wondered where that money came from? Just hang around the shop for a day or two and you will realize that it doesn't come from TRG revenue. It's none of my business what kind of a trust fund that guy has, but he should have more concideration for the hard-earned dollars that his customers spend there.

Only one of the mechanics there impressed me. Three months later I found him working at another shop. He told me that as soon as the guys see what's going on they move on. Other than one or two guys, the place has a revolving door for mechanics.

Kevin is a nice enough guy, but geez..

Dave

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Dave,

Thanx for the honest reply and I feel your pain. That is a terrible buying experience. I hope the suspension worked out in the end. What did you end up with?

As far as alingment is concerned, I agree with Steve that the rack is the best place for it, but also that you can get results with the old way if done properly. I guess if the shop one chooses doesn't have a rack, then you have to trust their ability with the string.

Good luck.

E. J.

D.G.

E.J.,

Thnx. I gave up on it after spending an additional $770 at two other shops trying to get the issues ironed out. The rebound travel issue was fixed with spacers, but I couldn't get rid of the rattling in the front end when going over a speed bump. Also, after the struts lost their charge I lost my confidence in them.

After trying a used ROW-M030 setup for a while I ended up with H&R Coil-overs with modified ROW-M030 sway bars. Both bars have an extra hole drilled in each end for adjustability. I'm very happy with this setup, and my love for my car has been restored.

Dave

D.G.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Dave, glad it worked out, sorry for the tude before.

E. J.

SundayDriver

[quote]Originally posted by E. J.:
<strong>As far as alingment is concerned, I agree with Steve that the rack is the best place for it, but also that you can get results with the old way if done properly. I guess if the shop one chooses doesn't have a rack, then you have to trust their ability with the string.

Good luck.

E. J.</strong><hr></blockquote>

EJ - I have to disagree with this one. The string is only for toe. If done carefully, it is as good as the machine, but what about camber, caster and kinematic toe.

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by Dave '95 Cab:
<strong>
I had an allignment and corner ballance done at TRG about 18 months ago.
Their allignment 'rig' consisted of two long poles attached to each other at each end with equal length strings. They positioned one pole in front of the car and one behind the car and then stretched the strings taught. The strings kept the poles parallel. The expert technicians then used a ruler to measure the allignment. Do I need to continue?

Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dave,
This is the way I, (well mostly my mechanic) aligned my car today. We used the same gigs they used on a 993GT2 and he also had similar ones that came from the factory on the GT-1 they had.

We used a dunlop camber gauge to measure and adjust camber and a special tool (no clue what its official name is, kind of like a level that hangs on the rear caliper) for the kinematic rear link. The caster is easy you set it to the max. My mechanic is old school and doesn't do enough alignments to justify a full hunter rack set up. And believe me just because someone has the best tools or equipment doesn't mean that they can get the job done. I had my alignment screwed up by a shop with the best equipment, all it managed to do was eat a larger hole in my wallet.

TRG is a premier sponsor of rennlist, I would make sure that John D. knows of your experience in case he doesn't see your post.
Greg

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Mark,

I think Greg answered, but here goes. You can get a smart camber tool for about $200 and the castor goes all the way. As for the kinematic toe, the special tool from Porsche doesnt need a rack to work - you just need to buy the tool from Porsche.

Old school or Hunter rack - either way you better know how to use the tools you're working with.

E. J.