Greg Fishman

Bill,
I agree weight loss is the cheapest modification to increase performance, I just disagree that it is "free" . The race seats, the carbon bumpers, and other pieces were far from free. But I do use less tires and brakes due to the weight reduction so there is a fringe benefit besides just going faster....
Greg

Greg Fishman

Most of the things that will reduce the weight will also reduce your comfort and or safety. Airbags, factory seat belt reels, stereo equipment, carpeting and sound deadening material.
On a street car there just isn't a lot you can or should be willing to do.
Greg

Dbltime

Greg, lighten up (hey that was funny, get it?) Anyway these are sports cars not 7 series BMW's. There are several places you can remove unnecessary weight. I forget if my car is 2740 or 2840# (30 min fuel)without checking the log but it is still a very comfortable street car. Who needs those heavy mufflers for instance and air conditioning with all that silly plumbing. Back seats and panels-out. Lower dash, for what, loose it. Before you know it the back of your pick up is loaded and you are off to the storage shed. Oh yea don't forget the stock hood and retractable wing, way too heavy. The panels under the car will be of no use at your new lower ride hieght. Seats, spare tire, carpet and foam... Before you know it you are at 9.3lbs per pony instead of 10.5. Combine that with learning how to drive and who knows

Greg Fishman

Bill,
I think you must have been spying on me when my car was being prepped.
Getting the stuff out of the car is easy, the trick is re-installing everything so you can sell your ride and get that Cup car or RSR.

Greg

Dbltime

Sell the car? This is a piece of art I will be racing this car in Historic classes. Maybe pick up a Formula Mazda for a trainer.

MarkC

Whist agreeing with all the advice above here's a curve ball from the UK!

The 964RS register secretary for the Porsche Club of Great Britain (PCGB) has in conjunction with a UK based Porsche specialist (930 Motorsport) built a very special 3.6ltr engine that makes 360hp @ 7400rpm!

Lets assume for now that the dyno is well calibrated and power is correctly, err corrected.

Still not satisfied, this motor is being worked on even more. Temporarily taking its place in the RS is a stock 3.6ltr 993 engine. Only it's not quite stock!

In place of the Bosch DME and Porsche inlet system is the Motec M48 Pro engine management system with 6 individual throttle bodies each using a 48mm butterfly from the special engine.
The exhaust system is also replaced by SHK "GT" exhaust headers and a single twin outlet rear muffler.

The result is 320hp @6400rpm from a mechanically stock 3.6ltr engine!

If we believe the above numbers (and I have no reason not to) it seems the inlet and exhaust systems have a massive effect on the power our engines can make.

I think the Motec system or similar can be had for less than the cost of 3.8ltr upgrade and may make more power! Anyone here gone down this path?

A Motec AND 3.8 upgrade, now were really cooking.

I do have details of the mechanical mods made so far to the special engine if anyone's interested.

David C

Robin 993 DX
I had my 95 on a DynoJet dyno last Saturday. My car is stock with B&B mufflers, no cats. Temperature was 55. I used 4th gear and ran to fuel shut off. Max hp: 250.5 Max torque: 232.7. Your info is probably correct

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

A quick footnote on the observed HP variations in all of these 993 engines,.....

Due to Porsche's change in cam timing hardware, there are some variations as much as 20HP between 993's of the same generation, Non-Varioram and Varioram versions. Some of these engines do not have their cams timed very well relative to the crank, nor to each other. Its a production tolerance thing.

When we install RS cams, we usually backdate the sprockets and hardware so they can be very precisely adjusted and the timing set much more accurately. This accounts for some of the power increases with his modification.

H20NOO

Robin,

My car was dyno'd on a Dynapack 3000. It's a state of the art $200k dyno that bolts directly to the rear hubs.

All runs were in 3rd gear. My first run was 216, then 225, 232, and finally 239.2 Obviously the DME was making adjustments that were adding HP. I would have liked to do a few more runs buy my $120 was used up! Maybe with another run in 4th gear we might have touched the 250HP line... I'll see if I can post the graph later this evening.

dcpmark

Steve:

Since you've indentified the chip as a good place to start, can you tell us what chip(s) you recommend, and why?

Thanks!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

LOL,...you've put me in a tough spot and I run the risk of losing objectivity & credibility here,... All I can honestly do is tell you about what I do and leave it at that.

We do our own chips here for these OBDII cars and tailor the timing maps to the locally available fuel octane in your area. We also do not change the rev limiter unless better rod bolts, valve springs, and retainers are installed. Our normal chips make about a 15-18 HP difference with a nice increase in throttle response. I do have other files for special applications like race gas, high rev limits and the Factory 3.8 RS kit.

We've chipped the 993's of several folks that read this Board and they might be able to respond directly.

Hope this helps,......

dcpmark

Ooops....almost forgot, Steve.....

As my original post suggested, I want to maintain daily drivability. Here in LA, CA, this means 91 octane gas as far as I know......

Martin S.

The 993 RS with a 3.8, trick ECU, high test gas, I suspect slightly differnt cams, puts out 300HP, a mere 18 HP more than a bone stock 993 Varioram. It also has the close ration tranny and the lightened flywheel and clutch assembly. I am certain it is a little bit faster in a 1/4 mile, but not that much. To bolt these mods on a 993 US car would be close to $20,000, the tranny, the flywheel, the 3.8 kit and labor...I'll bet it would be more than that when all was said and done.

From all I have read, and the great posts above, it is clear that cheap, or for that matter, expensive incremental HP is hard to come by on a 993.

Probably the most cost effective mod (re-sale value considered), and if you want HP for striaght line acceleration, sell your car and buy a Turbo. A C2S is in the Western US is probably worth from $55 to $60, if it is in primo shape. You could pick up a clean 993 Turbo for $85 to $90, a $30,000, or so, delta.

993 TT cars have been holding their values better than N/A cars, having dropped a mere 15% or so in the last five years. Now you have a better "investment" with 100+ more HP, the answer to your dreams!

The only down side, once you have the Turbo and should decide it is too slow, now you you are looking at some major money to get to the 570 to 600 HP range. It can be done...but it ain't cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

All of the above IMHO, of course.

KASH '95 993

Steve, if you will, is that 15 - 18 HP at the wheel or the Crank? Also, will the same chip also cure the stalling problems asociated with the early (95) 993's with lightweight flywheels for the same cost? Thanks,

Ken ASH

dcpmark

While I agree with most of your post, I have question the "cost-effective" aspect of upgrading to a Turbo! I just purchased (picking up tomorrow after the PPI) a FLAWLESS '97 C2S with 12k miles on it for $48,500. Where do you think I'm going to get another $35k for similarly equipped Turbo?????

Also, remember, I was originally looking for a modest gain of 20 to 40hp.