Martin S.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dcpmark:
[QB]

While I agree with most of your post, I have question the "cost-effective" aspect of upgrading to a Turbo! I just purchased (picking up tomorrow after the PPI) a FLAWLESS '97 C2S with 12k miles on it for $48,500. Where do you think I'm going to get another $35k for similarly equipped Turbo?????

If you picked up a pristine, low mileage, C2S for $48,500...that was a great deal. Remind me not to buy a rug from you.

If you want to have some fun, get a second set of wheels, shod them with Kuhmos, or some other sticky tire, and head out for a DE event.

In case you don't already know this, the C2S and C2 cars are plenty fast. They have nearly the same power to weight ratio of a 89 Turbo, it too with 282 HP and around 3,250, and you have no Turbo lag to contend with.

Your post has brought out some of the best Rennlist posters in response to your query (Me excluded: I am only a 4* Poster child). There is some great advice within this thread. Heed it and you may save yourself lots of grief and money. Enjoy the C2S and hope to see you at the Track.

dcpmark

12 hours to go til I pick her up and take her for a checkup! Can't wait to post pics......the price is a long story, but yes, I got an unbelieveable deal, IMHO.

I realize that this can be construed as blasphemy, but this jewel will NEVER see the track......or dust......or dirt......or rain......

Mark in Hermosa

You can get 100 here in SoCal. There are a few locations around you (12037 San Vicente, for example). Go to www.union76.com and use the station locator. Mix the 100 with 91 based on the info on Steve W.'s site and you've got 93, 94, 95,etc.

dcpmark

Yeah, I figured there would probably be a few places like that.....but not a chance. I don't ever want to worry about how far I am away from a particular gas station, or in what proportions I have to mix my gas.......takes the fun out of driving, IMHO.......

Randall G.

Martin has a very good point here, and it actually extends back to the 964. A quote from Excellence Magazine's 6/90 article on the (then) new '90 Carrera 2:

"It is very nearly as quick as the 3.3 liter turbo, the benchmark 911 which is no longer in production. Porsche attributes to the turbo a 0-60 mile per hour time of 5.5 seconds, exactly the same figure which the factory now assigns to the Carrera 2."

993RS

IMHO the turbo lag makes dosage in fast curves more difficult then the more immediate response of the NA engine. But if you drive mostly on freeways, the turbo kick is addictive...

H20NOO

Here is my dyno chart.

Two other points..

We had an ENORMOUS fan in front of the car that was blowing a steady 40-60mph gale over the car. The first couple dyno runs were done with the engine cover open. The last 2 were with the cover closed and the wing enabled. The best runs were with the cover closed as the wing seemed to capture the air as it passed over the top of the car (cabriolet top in place of course...).

Also, I was running a 60/40 mix of Unocal 100 and Unocal 91 octane unleaded for a net octane rating of about 96.4. That may have also contributed to the "learning curve" as I usually run 92-94 octane mix.

The bottom line is that the very free flowing Fabspeed mufflers and open airbox still do not put the car to the claimed rating of 285HP at the crank. In fact, it's possible they hurt the output at certain RPM's. The torque curve looks like a roller coaster at Great America, particularyl when the VarioRam kicks in. It sure sounded good though. People walking to the location from shops accross the street just to see what machine was making such an incredible wail. I regret that I didn't perform any baseline dyno runs before the modifications. No point of reference. I might swap out mufflers, airbox cover, and filter and do another run.

Joe@Fabspeed

Hi Matt
LOL just like S.W.

your dyno graphs should a solid power increase for your bolt ons that is rising concurrently. As shown the freeflow mufflers (2 1/2" inlet/2.5" outlet) and other parts added power and superlative sportscar sound to your Porsche 993.

At Fabspeed Motorsport we use a Mustang Dyno that is a 2 roller dyno and we use 25%-30% as a correction factor for losses to extrapolate power back to the flywheel. All chassis dynos are different (dynojets have one large roller only) and have different parasitic losses.

The standard a percentage multiplier as an "add-back" to calculate net power at the flywheel that most dynos use is 20%-30% as the addback parameter depending on their dyno.

A real freeflow catback exhaust and a quality airintake system are the easiest to install, most value oriented, and most logical improvemnents for any Porsche owner can make if they are inclined.

Gearboxes, internal engine modifications are big bucks procedures that work BUT are not usually recommended as primary initial modifications unless someone is motivated to sell you those parts and expensive procedures.

LOL its kind of funny seeing that motivation.

Enjoy your beautiful 993 cabriolet and since youre in California call the Racer's Group -one of the biggest sponsors of RENNLIST!.

Call Kevin or Tony @ 707-935-3999 and see if he has a piggyback program dealer/installer in your hometown to install a superquality "chip" specifically tuned for your car. If not you can always jet up to San Francisco and have them dyno tune your car for maximum safe power by the experts.

Have a great day.
joe Fabiani Fabspeed Motorsport USA

Performance for the Next Millenium

Matt Vaughan

dcpmark, Steve Weiner re-flashed my ECU in my '98 Carrera S. I'm completely satisfied with the results. I notice that the car pulls harder in all gears -- giving me a noticeably wider grin. I would definitely recommend this upgrade as it's a simple unplug, plug modification. And Steve's your man for the job. I think this should keep me happy until I do a LWF with new gearing, or perhaps the 3.8 upgrade. I guess I shouldn't say that too loud; the wife might hear!


-Matt

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Ken:

Since chip mapping is normally done on a chassis dyno (load type), the power changes are observed & measured at the rear wheels.

Also, please bear in mind that ANY RWP figure is truly relative, even on the amazingly consistent Dynojets', and should only be compared to the car under test. Same for the Mustang dyno's. There are many factors & variables in every chassis dyno test that really make direct comparisons not realistic. We use a Dynojet and a Mustang for different missions.

In my experience, some of these '95 993's handle the LW flywheel better than others and every car is different. Chips can be programmed to handle the vast majority of most of the stalling issues and there are some other things that can be done to help out those "problem children",....

You do have to drive them a little different though when coming up to a stop sign or signal.

Hope this helps,

H20NOO

Joe,

My last post isn't intended to talk down the quality of the Fabspeed products, or any other aftermarket mfg. for that matter. I'm extremely pleased with the look, sound, quality, and overall performance of the parts.

Clearly the less restrictive the induction and exhaust systems, the more power the engine should make, provided fuel delivery is adjusted accordingly. The exhaust and open airbox do a great job but it appears the OEM Porsche items are pretty good also. After all, this isn't the same as uncorking the family station wagon with a four barrel carburetor and a couple of "glass packs". Those were the days!

Most of my experience is with motorcycle engine building, both 2 and 4-stroke. Generally speaking, gains in one part of the rev range are usually made at the expense of power in another part of the range.

This would appear NOT to be the case with chip mods which dynamically optimize engine management across the entire rev range. I agree that a good chip would yield solid improvement. That improvement should be amplified when combined with exhaust and airbox modifications.

The factory rating of 285HP may never be reached in MY car for reasons ranging from the aforementioned cam timing issues to the quality of fuel, ambient air temp., humidity, altitude, proper break-in, ring seating, etc. Perhaps in an optimal environment my engine would make 285HP with no mods. I kinda doubt it.

By my calculations 239HP translates to about 275-280HP at the crank and that's ok with me. The morale of the story is that you can't squeeze 30 additional HP out of these engines for $2-3k. Real power and torque cost cubic dollars.

Based on my research Steve Weiner seems to have the best knowledge and reputation for chip mods on the west coast. If/when I make that move, he's the guy.

I may visit The Racer's Group for alignment and corner balancing after I install my PSS-9's.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Let me ask the obvious question since no one else has and I mean no disrespect by this: Why do you need more horsepower? If your not going to the track, isin't ~285 enough for the street?

I agree with the others that you can make more power and it can get expensive, but for what? Sure it is more fun to have a little extra go-juice under the right foot when crusing the boulevard, but good lord, 285 ought to be enough for most street trips.

If you still decide you need more, call Steve and have him lighten your wallet, I know he can find a few extra hp living in your motor for a few bucks.

E. J.

Vinnie

IMHO...

I had one of Steve's chips installed in my C4S and I can say that the car pulls harder and more importantly to me, feels/runs smoother in every gear. After much research I decided to go with Steve's products based on experience, customer service, and proven track record. The only fair comparison I can give in terms of performance enhancement is that with Steve's chip, it felt like going from a car with no Varioram to one with it (seat of the pants dyno).

Besides the actual quality of the product, an important selling point to me was that Steve was spending more time with me on the phone than with his wife. His long distance bill to NY probably cost him all his profit on the chip :-). I can surely attest to the fact that hardly anyone would stand behind their products the way Steve does. I'm sure there are other great companies out there with excellent and maybe superior products at potentially a lower price, but I don't think you can find a better person behind the products. I can go on forever about how Steve has helped me but I won't since everyone here knows what he contributes to this board.

The only negative with the chip is that it takes time for the car to "learn" the new program and timing/fuel maps, and the car may run rough at first start (I thought I ruined a perfectly good car! :-)).

The only negative with Steve is that he will surely help lighten your wallet as E.J. said, but unfortunately with ration, sane, and wise purchases/upgrades. I'll get off my soapbox now and just say THANK YOU STEVE FOR EVERYTHING!.

Warm Regards,

dcpmark

Yes, it enough for 98% of the time......but every once in a while, you get to stretch it out on a freeway, impress a passenger, etc. I had little knowledge of hp gains, and these posts have really helped me understand what they are all about. It looks like I'll be happy finding a the right chip (one that runs on 91 octane), and leave my mods at that.........

Thanks to everyone!

KASH '95 993

Steve, thanks for the objective feed back.