First 300 Miles Driven 993 C4S vs 993 C2S
04-17-2018, 10:55 AM
#16
Pretty obvious difference here guys, the C4S is making heaps of low speed down force with the turbo spoiler.
Beautiful cars. I love the high level of mechanical grip that these cars have when set up properly. Seems you may have some differences in geometry, tires, suspension wear, etc that is causing most of the 'squealing' in the C2S.
Beautiful cars. I love the high level of mechanical grip that these cars have when set up properly. Seems you may have some differences in geometry, tires, suspension wear, etc that is causing most of the 'squealing' in the C2S.
04-17-2018, 11:57 AM
#17
Drifting
04-17-2018, 05:32 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Pretty obvious difference here guys, the C4S is making heaps of low speed down force with the turbo spoiler.
Beautiful cars. I love the high level of mechanical grip that these cars have when set up properly. Seems you may have some differences in geometry, tires, suspension wear, etc that is causing most of the 'squealing' in the C2S.
Beautiful cars. I love the high level of mechanical grip that these cars have when set up properly. Seems you may have some differences in geometry, tires, suspension wear, etc that is causing most of the 'squealing' in the C2S.
Never would've thought I'd be commanding the wheel of a '97 Carrera S. Man do I miss this car, it paid for a lot of dates back in the day. Wish I would've kept it and set it up for track. 
Lady in Red..
Now back to Porsches:
@NYC993, I would love for you to share your experience pre and post AWD removal in your 9934S now sort of just C2S. What have been the benefits besides the deduction of 80lbs or so? First time I ever hear about this mod.
Thanks all, keep sharing.
04-17-2018, 05:48 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Interesting that you own both. Your a very lucky man! I have never had a 4wd car before. The front end definitely feels heavier. My c2s 997 was super light in the front and felt more playful, but not as stable at highway speed. The 993 c4s is insane to me how much grip it has. I have yet to hear the tires even make a noise. They are the cheap sumitomo HTZ III's. I find myself amazed during turn in and the car feels like it will defy the law of physics. I have only tried to push it a couple times just to test. I have a tight roundabout and keep going around in the circle to see how hard I could go before I rubbed while adjusting coilover height. Keep going faster and faster and no sound once at the optimal height. The only thing I want is more power. Car is not a speed demon. It is quick enough to have fun while not going straight to jail. I knew that going in, but I think 100hp more would be perfect. Wish I could afford the turbo, it we all have spending limits. Please keep updating us!
04-17-2018, 05:52 PM
#20
Drifting
my front dif broke so I just had shop take it out along with the torque tube. FD even puts together a kit for the conversion. It was popular with c4 guys esp. in 964 world cuz awd is really heavy there.
I run slighly larger rear tires on the track due to limited sizes nt01s come in so when i took awd out i noticed no real difference.
FYI Oem rear wheels are smaller, which i read somewhere is to simulate rear wheel spin and have coupling preloded.
Unless you are driving 9/10th consistently, 80lbs doesnt make a difference. On the street, we drive maybe 5-6/10th during spirited driving.
I run slighly larger rear tires on the track due to limited sizes nt01s come in so when i took awd out i noticed no real difference.
FYI Oem rear wheels are smaller, which i read somewhere is to simulate rear wheel spin and have coupling preloded.
Unless you are driving 9/10th consistently, 80lbs doesnt make a difference. On the street, we drive maybe 5-6/10th during spirited driving.
04-17-2018, 09:59 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
@NYC993: Very interesting. Will look into it for my 964 C4 possibly. I always feel her heavy although she is a Garage Queen. I like how you put the term "Spirited Driving".
04-18-2018, 08:29 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JAB12
@NYC993: Very interesting. Will look into it for my 964 C4 possibly. I always feel her heavy although she is a Garage Queen. I like how you put the term "Spirited Driving".
04-18-2018, 09:47 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
04-22-2018, 01:57 PM
#24
Good read. I am glad you bought some drivers and usi then as intended by driving them. I am in the same camp, would love to find a nice driver high miles don’t scare me either, really on any car if everything else makes sense.
now I can see why your selling the PTT
. Be comparison to that car must be drastically different. That car does defy physics a little bit from my limited seat time.
now I can see why your selling the PTT
. Be comparison to that car must be drastically different. That car does defy physics a little bit from my limited seat time.
04-22-2018, 05:27 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
I was wondering about this. It almost has to be true. I remember reading about how the Corvette reviews would sometimes explain how twitchy the car is, yet, folks that track these cars say the opposite. And Chevy would go and adjust the suspension and “fix” the twitchiness.
I drove a 991 that felt like it has no grip, yet my 996 has incredible grip. But it’s a C2? If you think about it, grip should have nothing at all to do with RWD vs AWD, assuming that we are talking about braking and turning.
If traction is low enough that the rear end could break loose on acceleration, you may feel more grip since the power is being routed between the front and rear to maximize traction. This is when a C4 can feel like it is clawing its way out of a corner.
So depending on conditions, driving style, setup and tires you may feel various differences in grip on corner entry, mid corner or exit between the C4 and the C2. Much of which is hard to discern unless you have a lot of experience in these cars and you are driving them on the track to really push the limits.
My take is that the C4(S) feels more ‘solid’ and confidence inspiring and has a cool feel through the steering wheel on corner exit as the front tires scrabble forward. Lots of fun! The C2(S) on the other hand feels easier to work the rear of the car. Throttle changes have a bigger impact on what the rear tires are doing and you can play with rotation and acceleration/weight induced chassis balance. Also lots of fun!
They are both great cars. For fair weather I prefer a C2 (barely) just because it is simpler and drives more like past 911s. For wet weather I prefer a C4 (by a lot) because I can feel it taking care of me and I can push the car in a wider range of conditions.
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spinfree (09-13-2021)
04-22-2018, 09:07 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Maybe it’s the way my C2 is setup, but using any throttle just results in understeer. The only way I can get the traction loose in the rear is under braking, such as trail braking into a turn. Otherwise, the rear just stays planted.
04-22-2018, 09:37 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
The S has a LOT more tire in the back than a narrow body car. You can fix that by increasing tire width in front and/or reducing it in the rear. 235/275 or 235/265 are both good combos.
04-22-2018, 09:51 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
4/20/2018
Good read. I am glad you bought some drivers and usi then as intended by driving them. I am in the same camp, would love to find a nice driver high miles don’t scare me either, really on any car if everything else makes sense.
now I can see why your selling the PTT. Be comparison to that car must be drastically different. That car does defy physics a little bit from my limited seat time.
now I can see why your selling the PTT
. Be comparison to that car must be drastically different. That car does defy physics a little bit from my limited seat time.
04-22-2018, 11:48 PM
#29
Originally Posted by JAB12
....
It does make sense to focus on Aircooled. Whoever gets my 970TT will be a fortunate new owner. It just dies not get seat time anymore just service and occasional roll out.
[/left]
It does make sense to focus on Aircooled. Whoever gets my 970TT will be a fortunate new owner. It just dies not get seat time anymore just service and occasional roll out.
[/left]
Last edited by HelpMeHelpU; 04-23-2018 at 01:58 AM.
04-23-2018, 08:38 PM
#30
Drifting