When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I think the OP's question is a valid one. Remember, we all had to start our knowledge base somewhere. Before the internet, most of us soldiered alone in our performance upgrades, maybe getting tips here and there from mechanics, other enthusiasts, R&T, C&D, etc. Today, discussion boards offer a huge level of information that can be answered almost instantaneously. No foul here with the OP's query.
No fault with query, but I think, Mark, the larger picture merits more consideration, Mark. The query pretty much has been answered in the first posts - no matter which hole. But further to that, do you feel safe on a public road with somebody pushing a 993 next to you because they feel all confident that they got the suspension set up right? I don't. Heck, I don't feel safe on public road at all.
BTW, did anyone pay attention to the tire sizes? 225/285 and oversteer? Either something is broken in the suspension, or, and I'll bet my last slice of brie on this, OP goes in too fast and lifts in the turn. Because: "Im trying to get the car to enter a curve or bend in a higher speed"
Hakosuka, believe me, and I'm being 100% sincere here... trying to save your car and your bones. 993 is not an easy car to drive fast. 993 is really not trivial to drive fast on the street (limits are too high, snap oversteer is a bitch). Somebody like Bill can do it. Mark and others who do a lot of track work in a 993 can do it. We, mere mortals... not so much. So, education is the key. And then car set up, way after you feel what each adjustment will do for the car in a controlled environment. And that knowledge is universal and will help for any car in any driving situation. "And that's all I have to say about that"
Unless you have plenty of seat time sliding the car around the track, your feeling doesn't count as feedback. ...But again only at the track you can actually experiment taking the same corner over and over. For now, set them to softest setting and forget it. The car has incredible amount of grip and behaves very well if set-up correctly.
^ This (and Mike, aka Nile) is prudent, sage advice! Safety is key, and attempting to diagnose handling limits on public roads is monumentally dangerous to everyone when those limits are high as they are on even a bone stock 993. You don't want to bend your car, let alone inure yourself or others in an "ooopsie" when your mind is "figuring out" what the car is doing, in milliseconds, and this without practicing. Folks think they understand over and understeer because they felt it on the road this or that time; I know, I was one of them. The fact is one doesn't truly know what understeer or oversteer is until you hit it, then exceed it, then correct for it; and this over innumerable times until it becomes second nature such that you don't "think" but instead react. I know of no other way to learn these skills without practicing it on the safe, controlled confines of a track (or a/x) setting.
So yessir, to the OP, set it all on "soft" (which is far more firm than what one had stock), and drive it and smile ...you'll enjoy the vast improvement in tactile feel and firmness. Then look out for DE opportunities ...that's where the serious fun (ah hem, addiction) sets in. Enjoy and be well!
@edward, nile13 nyc and mark thanks,
as for the advice of everyone about public safety... yes i am concerned, that is why i want to see whats happening and what to do to change it, i would love to take courses of A/X but here in my country theres nothing like that offered,
now back to resolving the problem
my car is lowered but not as low as the RS, should i go for the rs setting or the ROW standard one? since i will double check this
i am sorry for my post if i made some of you guys sad or angry at my post, im new on the 993 scene and just want to make the car run right and have fun, its not like i am driving over the limit to be the cool guy, ive taken the same roads with other cars and other cars wont act the same way that is why i spoke to my local shop and he recommended me to change for the RS bars, but now ive learned maybe there are other things involved and will check those alignments
just a newby learning things here hope you guys will understand me now, and hope you guys continue helping me out and sorting things in the future
You may get varying opinions on this, but I prefer row sport for street driving. Car feels more composed on lumpy pavement and other normal street conditions and it gives you reasonable suspension geometry while using the stock wheel carriers.
I’ve experimented with a variety of ride heights and that’s what feels best to me.
No need to apologize, really! We welcome your post and have all been there before ...it is all part of the learning curve, so you are just fine, sir! And we really are a friendly bunch here, which sometimes the tone of a post doesn't accurately convey. Think of it this way, we are simply offering our advice from our varying experience ...take it for what it's worth
1. RS bars: Good bars, but pricey IMHO. The stock RoW Turbo bars are Front 22mm/Rear 21mm are plenty good and offer fabulous balanced handling and will likely come in cheaper than the RS bars simply because they are stock Porsche instead of "RS" which drives up the price. But if you already have the RS ones, that's fine. Stock bushings are also fine.
2. Ride height: how often do you drive it (is this a daily driver or a weekend fun car?) and what is the general condition of your streets? RS ride height is fine (and my personal preference), but some opt for RoW height because it's easier to deal with driveways/dips and is generally less-prone to scraping.
3. Alignment: it is critical that someone who specifically knows the 993 does this correctly. But as for alignment specs, the RS specs are still fairly conservative for the street and offers a good place to start, IMHO.
Advice to get you K-Toe checked by a competent shop is valid... I cant count the number of times improper k-toe has had folks chasing suspension problems on here.
As far as swaybars, set them in the middle, then tune to your liking. The learning experience is all the fun. As others mentioned, a track day will really accelerate the curve. enjoy the journey.
Hakosuka, let's set the bars aside for now and concentrate on big things:
1. What tires are you on and what settings?
2. Where are your KW set, front and rear?
3. What is your alignment currently (if you don't know, absolutely, start with that).
4. What is it that bothers you in the car's handling?
Do you know for a fact that you are _not_ coming into turns a little too fast and lifting or braking in turn? This would be my first thought and my bet Essentially, I've gotten into autocross 25 years ago because I've spun a mid-engined car on the street several times doing just that. And understood that if I don't learn to drive it will not end well for the car or myself. A 993 is even more difficult. Its not like other cars. being rear-enginesd, it's like a pendulum, essentially. Once you upset it in mid-turn, a very pronounced understeer, exacerbated by your choice of tire sizes, turns into ***-biting oversteer immediately. Bars will not help with that at all. They are a fine balance adjustment, but if you _feel_ oversteer on the street, there are significantly larger issues somewhere. I tend to look at myself as a driver before I look at the car.
So, I'd go back to a safe place and see if you can catch what you are doing when the car starts to step out. Perhaps, point a camera to your right foot. If/when you catch the behavior, post a picture.
PS. You can name the country, it's no big deal. There might very well be a Rennlister or two nearby who would be willing to drive teh car and land and opinion. I'm afraid your shop, suggesting RS bars for the street, just wants to get money. At least it very much feels this way.
PPS. We are a friendly and helpful bunch. Even if it doesn't feel like it immediately
@TJ993 front 32 psi, rear 36psi (cold)
@nile13 running advan ad08r , for all the alignment and suspension setting dont know cause bought the car like that from previous owner and never touched it, thought it was ok, but will check next week,
just ordered some tarret drop links to fit the rear sway bar, waiting to receive that and then check the whole suspension alignment setting, since i have to align it again from the work done.
As for coming in to fast in the bend im sure im not going too fast (lets say 80-100 is the normal going speed in this freeway) cause lot of other cars including mid size suv and other cars go at the same speed (even good trucks go at almost those speeds) , dont see brake lights lighting on, lets say is a freeway with a normal bend limit speed is 100 the whole freeway, and normally no lifting unless theres congestion or a slow car in front.
im located in hong kong.
well as im not a guru in this matter i listened to the shop to try the RS swaybars, and came to the forum to see what hole to put it as in hong kong everything is money, and dont want to go back and tell the shop lets try the other hole,and get charged and wast time for doing so. thats why i asked to see what everyone opinion was or how people set it up.
stilll looking for a shop with a KT tool for the suspension part
thanks in advance
im thinking to go with the rs alignment,
ill keep you guys posted and luckily if i can ill post some pics also,
one other question how to meassure the height? was searching before and remember seeing a post saying from the ground to the bolt in the suspension arm? or is it ground to the middle of the highest point of the wheel arch? anyone will contribute for this info?
Ad08R is an excellent tire. What are the tire pressures?
On suspension setup - start with checking where KWs are adjusted (they are adjustable, you should be able to turn them and see). Soften the rear shocks.
The "bends on a highway and associated speed wouldn't tell anyone much, unfortunately. But... there is a possibility that one of the rear shocks is blow What you are describing would not be unusual in that case. The car would get upset in turns on any type of road imperfection and try to hop and step out. If you drive and do some turning on a bumpy parking lot, does the car also try to swap ends?
well interesting that you say that, in some cases i felt when the road have some imperfections like bumpy or lumpy, not perfect flat, i feel like the steering wheel tries to pull me either right or left until i have to correct it (in very slow speed as taking off from intersections or red lights, wondere if this has to do with the alignment
@edward, nile13 nyc and mark thanks,
as for the advice of everyone about public safety... yes i am concerned, that is why i want to see whats happening and what to do to change it, i would love to take courses of A/X but here in my country theres nothing like that offered,
now back to resolving the problem
my car is lowered but not as low as the RS, should i go for the rs setting or the ROW standard one? since i will double check this
i am sorry for my post if i made some of you guys sad or angry at my post, im new on the 993 scene and just want to make the car run right and have fun, its not like i am driving over the limit to be the cool guy, ive taken the same roads with other cars and other cars wont act the same way that is why i spoke to my local shop and he recommended me to change for the RS bars, but now ive learned maybe there are other things involved and will check those alignments
just a newby learning things here hope you guys will understand me now, and hope you guys continue helping me out and sorting things in the future
Since I put that table together I'll point out that those are stock factory specs intended for usual run of the mill street use and they are far from what a performance oriented alignment will be.
As for what you should use there will be a range form mild to full race, it depends on tires ride height the actual suspension components used and what you use the car for.
If you want a great handling 993 start w/ great shocks, min would be Bilstein hd(either B8 or B6 for a lower car) and go all the way to really expensive fully adjustable race shocks, Bushes should be RS at a minimum and go all the way to full mono-ball, Tires from extreme performance summer to DoT R's
alignment will have a bit more camber f/r a bit less toe front, KT 3.5 max equal measure on both sides
well interesting that you say that, in some cases i felt when the road have some imperfections like bumpy or lumpy, not perfect flat, i feel like the steering wheel tries to pull me either right or left until i have to correct it (in very slow speed as taking off from intersections or red lights, wondere if this has to do with the alignment
That is distinctly different from what I'm describing, That is tramlining.
In a 993, try to concentrate on how the rear of the car behaves first. That's the scary end.
If you want a great handling 993 start w/ great shocks, min would be Bilstein hd(either B8 or B6 for a lower car) and go all the way to really expensive fully adjustable race shocks, Bushes should be RS at a minimum and go all the way to full mono-ball, Tires from extreme performance summer to DoT R's
alignment will have a bit more camber f/r a bit less toe front, KT 3.5 max equal measure on both sides
Bill, he's on KW V3 and Yoko AD08R. Both should be plenty enough for the street. If they are in good shape, that is. The 225/285 combo is odd, but that combo causing oversteer is even odder.
11-18-2017, 01:31 PM
