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look you guys want to froth at the mouth and carry on in a tizzy like yappy little show dogs about how Porsche is ruining itself and betraying its heritage and blah blah blah before even hearing what that entire 992.2 line up is, well, I’ve got a delightful bourbon and bag of popcorn to watch some fools ritually humiliate themselves.
Thank you, Karen….speaking of fools, bourbon and Valium.
look you guys want to froth at the mouth and carry on in a tizzy like yappy little show dogs about how Porsche is ruining itself and betraying its heritage and blah blah blah before even hearing what that entire 992.2 line up is, well, I’ve got a delightful bourbon and bag of popcorn to watch some fools ritually humiliate themselves.
you do realize this is a internet forum right? this isn't the NY times where (supposedly) we are being held to some journalistic standard of factual reporting. Have you ever been in an internet forum? this is how it is, lots of speculation and like minded people just having conversation. if you don't enjoy this then perhaps find a car publication that you can subscribe to and only hear about things once they've been confirmed by the manufacturer.
I think we all need to move past denial and on our way towards acceptance. Porsche held the torch for manuals longer than almost everyone. They need to maintain their performance edge and move towards hybrids. I’m not the least bit surprised that the S wont have a manual, since the gts wont. This is the new reality, unfortunately.
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Agreed. Ferrari quit making manuals in 2012, if that marque can get away with it Porsche certainly can.
you do realize this is a internet forum right? this isn't the NY times where (supposedly) we are being held to some journalistic standard of factual reporting. Have you ever been in an internet forum? this is how it is, lots of speculation and like minded people just having conversation. if you don't enjoy this then perhaps find a car publication that you can subscribe to and only hear about things once they've been confirmed by the manufacturer.
this isn’t speculation. This is a bunch of fools hyperventilating that Porsche isn’t going to make manuals anymore despite knowing that Porsche will absolutely continue to make manuals, just maybe not in their favorite trims. But maybe yes there too later.
you do realize this is an Internet forum, right ? Grown men having histrionics get mocked. Oh noes! I can’t get a manual 911 992.2 rwd gts. I just have to get a 911 992.2 rwd turbo. I can’t live like this, pass the nightshade …
Porsche is absolutely going to make more manuals in the United States. More than just the gt3.
you do realize this is a internet forum right? this isn't the NY times where (supposedly) we are being held to some journalistic standard of factual reporting. Have you ever been in an internet forum? this is how it is, lots of speculation and like minded people just having conversation. if you don't enjoy this then perhaps find a car publication that you can subscribe to and only hear about things once they've been confirmed by the manufacturer.
This is not just any internet forum but Rennlist which is as close to the wild wild west of internet forums that still exists and tends to bring out the worst in people by turning every harmless topic into a grudge match debate.
Speculation is fun but when it turns into the same old impassioned sky is falling arguments when we don't even have the entire picture yet, I totally understand the frustration.
I'm thinking it might end up being a "tuned up" version of the base engine (which has GTS turbos now). In other words, maybe it'll inherit the GTS' old setup. It would make sense from the standpoint of parts crossover with the base and it'd help to keep the GTS and S substantially differentiated.
For me, the other interesting question is what will they do with the Turbo and Turbo S? I think it'll be a hybrid like the GTS but with a bigger battery, bigger turbo (or more boost), and bigger electric motor. Thoughts?
This won’t be possible with Lamba 1 requirements. The entire reason the base has the larger .1 GTS Turbos is so it can achieve close to 400hp and run with the correct fuel to air ratio. Tuning the .2 base up to the S or slightly above S horsepower will mean it runs too rich for the new regulations.
It’s clear what Porsche is doing with the T-Hybrid. It’s the only way to keep the model line going without moving fully electric just yet. They’ll give us purists a manual in the RWD Turbo and the GT3. But, their backs are against the wall with these new regulations.
They’re going to produce models with the T-Hybrid, sell all of them because most people buy the PDK anyways, and they’ll remain as profitable as ever. The only other manual we might see on the market will be a T which will match the current .2 base engine. And it will be near the end of the lifecycle to boost sales before things go fully hybrid or fully electric.
There is not much speculation for the next year or so. We know what Porsche is releasing and most dealers also do know. Otherwise you can simply not do a multi billion production forecast and sales forecast.
After that is speculation of course but there is a very strict roadmap.
For example: GT2RS is 100% confirmed
Last edited by silversurfer6; 06-28-2024 at 05:55 PM.
BTW- silversurfer6 hit the 992.2GTS reveal on the head about a week before.
I am not the correcting type and this is surely not important but people should unerstand that the facts exist much earlier than they think and people are not awalys speculating:
We actually had the info on the GTS a bit earlier, from October 2023. This is the info about being a hybrid and the 540bhp output - displacement and torque came later. Link and post from RL as below.
The 2S is a hybrid, no manual option at launch and 510bhp. 4S will come much later for an unknown reason.
Speculation is fun but when it turns into the same old impassioned sky is falling arguments when we don't even have the entire picture yet, I totally understand the frustration.
Well, if you read the title and the opening post to this thread by detansinn you will see that this entire post is about a journalist named Jonny attending media day in Spain and speculating about manuals in the S. That is what this thread is all about! Anyone who wanted to discuss this topic was invited to do so by the OP. No one is forced to participate. If anyone does not want to engage with this topic or with others, then don’t. Pass it by. Move on. But no one should be rude, impolite and abrasive to those who do choose to participate in a conversation concerning the thread. If someone cannot cheerfully and politely handle discussions with those with differing opinions, they do not belong on here because Rennlist = differing opinions. Thank God we don’t all agree as this would be a very boring place if we did.
I am not the correcting type and this is surely not important but people should unerstand that the facts exist much earlier than they think and people are not awalys speculating:
We actually had the info on the GTS a bit earlier, from October 2023. This is the info about being a hybrid and the 540bhp output - displacement and torque came later. Link and post from RL as below.
The 2S is a hybrid, no manual option at launch and 510bhp. 4S will come much later for an unknown reason.
My sole reason for clicking on this thread was to see if you had a recent post. Thanks, I appreciate the information and the time you took to share it!
Well, if you read the title and the opening post to this thread by detansinn you will see that this entire post is about a journalist named Jonny attending media day in Spain and speculating about manuals in the S. That is what this thread is all about! Anyone who wanted to discuss this topic was invited to do so by the OP. No one is forced to participate. If anyone does not want to engage with this topic or with others, then don’t. Pass it by. Move on. But no one should be rude, impolite and abrasive to those who do choose to participate in a conversation concerning the thread. If someone cannot cheerfully and politely handle discussions with those with differing opinions, they do not belong on here because Rennlist = differing opinions. Thank God we don’t all agree as this would be a very boring place if we did.
Thank you silversurfer6 for the info.
Yes, I did read the title and also how quickly this thread devolved into attacks. I wasn't pointing fingers specifically at anyone and just making a general response. I completely agree that "no one should be rude, impolite and abrasive to those who do choose to participate in a conversation concerning the thread". AlexCeres made a snarky comment but I didn't see it as personal to anyone yet you called him a "Karen". Tit for tat doesn't help.
This won’t be possible with Lamba 1 requirements. The entire reason the base has the larger .1 GTS Turbos is so it can achieve close to 400hp and run with the correct fuel to air ratio. Tuning the .2 base up to the S or slightly above S horsepower will mean it runs too rich for the new regulations.
It’s clear what Porsche is doing with the T-Hybrid. It’s the only way to keep the model line going without moving fully electric just yet. They’ll give us purists a manual in the RWD Turbo and the GT3. But, their backs are against the wall with these new regulations.
They’re going to produce models with the T-Hybrid, sell all of them because most people buy the PDK anyways, and they’ll remain as profitable as ever. The only other manual we might see on the market will be a T which will match the current .2 base engine. And it will be near the end of the lifecycle to boost sales before things go fully hybrid or fully electric.
I concede that your conclusion is highly likely to be correct based on the lambda = 1 requirement. As someone who has multiple cars running on standalone engine management and always tunes fuel myself, it's amazing to me that this kind of power is possible with lambda = 1. This can only be achieved by running more boost, but retarding timing substantially and/or introducing new cooling measures like water injection. In the end with lambda = 1 regulations, you get an engine which is actually less fuel efficient in normal conditions (all other things being equal), and which produces less CO, but more CO2... So this regulation is really aimed at improving air quality in urban areas which on its own is not a bad thing. It is, however, counterproductive to the Europe's climate change goals. Perhaps only marginally however.
Yes, I did read the title and also how quickly this thread devolved into attacks. I wasn't pointing fingers specifically at anyone and just making a general response. I completely agree that "no one should be rude, impolite and abrasive to those who do choose to participate in a conversation concerning the thread". AlexCeres made a snarky comment but I didn't see it as personal to anyone yet you called him a "Karen". Tit for tat doesn't help.
And my comment was a general response also to everyone on Rennlist. Glad we agree on at least one principle.
I am not the correcting type and this is surely not important but people should unerstand that the facts exist much earlier than they think and people are not awalys speculating:
We actually had the info on the GTS a bit earlier, from October 2023. This is the info about being a hybrid and the 540bhp output - displacement and torque came later. Link and post from RL as below.
The 2S is a hybrid, no manual option at launch and 510bhp. 4S will come much later for an unknown reason.
I did not follow all that back and forth...but the expectation is that the 2S is likely a detuned GTS and the Base stands on its own as the ICE still based on the 3.0L engine? So, Base (3.0L) - S/GTS (3.6L/T-hybrid) -> Turbo (no idea).
06-28-2024, 05:21 AM
