yes, my first thought watching the tech details was "wow, that is going to be hard to develop a 3rd party tune for." So many things all balanced between ICE, e-turbo, electric assist, PDK. I think we're getting into integration levels where developing a 3rd party tune is going to be difficult if not impossible without factory-level training/access.

 

This absolutely. The 991 TT's seem much easier to tune than even the 992.1 TT's. Its not that hard to get to 900HP with a 991. The 992.1's seem few and far between on High HP stuff. And the tunes are just seemingly hitting the street over the last year. Car has been out since MY 2021. The 992.2 with Hybrid motors and electric stuff will be much more complex and I suspect may not be easy to just "slap on" a tune. On my 991 I have 68mm Turbo's, Stage 4 tune ByDesign plus plus and voila 765HP. And its been really bullet proof (touch wood) 5+ years.

 

You’re right. Charging for Guards Red specifically doesn’t make any logical sense and I’d like to see them try to explain it with a straight face.

 

Been agreeing with a lot of stuff you've been saying so props for that. Not a lot of people can come and throw logic around like that on a forum.
When I was in the market for a car I was between the R8, and the 911 - all roughly in the same range 150-170k. Received a no adm allocation before I could find a R8 spec I liked that had a clean carfax.
I wasn't looking to pass the 200+ threshold as that would introduce me in the mclaren territory which i feel should be the second sports car after a good initial one for me which this 911 is.
I ended up speccing a 4S to 170k (Chalk, RS Spyder, Aero, Premium, Sport) and even that was shocking to me as before when I was on the configurator a 4S wouldn't pass 150k for me on a higher optioned one. For the 992.1 I wanted a 4GTS but all local dealers wanted a ADM of atleast 10k.
Looking at the 992.2 it seems to take me into that territory of 200+ where I consider more options and the 911 looks less appealing. I definitely want to keep a 911 in the stable so I hope to make a jump into a 992.1 TTS but not until they are in the lower 200s.

I have nothing against the eturbo - personally thing thats a cool option and reduces turbo lag as well. Just some of the aesthetic things are not sitting well with me which makes me happy about my 4S regardless of depreciation. I might be a customer of the 992.2 hybrid but not 2025 for sure I know that.
Also the rear has a more edgy shape where prefer the more curved shape of the .1 and the button looks tacky now. This is my entry to the porsche world and when I first test drove one - turning that key felt special.

 

What if Porsche locks the ECU in this generation like on other European models (BMW comes to mind)?

 

$120,700 in 2019 translates to $152,700 in 2025 using an average of 4% inflation over 6 years. So higher than $166,895 yes. But the 992.2 GTS seems to have gone up quite a bit in performance specification (hybrid assist and complexity - not everyone necessarily likes or wants that) and market positioning. Luxury goods across the board have outpaced the CPI (rent, food, groceries and essentials). So the $166K while high is not super crazy.

 

Even with Porsche level knowledge it may not be possible to significantly increase power levels using only a software tune. There is no wastegate instead at higher RPM the turbo motor become a generator that charges the battery and prevents the turbo from exceeding a 150,000 rpm redline. With a significant increase in power from a tune will it even be possible to prevent the turbo from exceeding redline? What about the additional turbo heat load with integrated motor? Can the turbo charging system and battery accommodate additional current? Lots of challenges outside the typical tuner domain.

 

Not all luxury goods are equal. One doesn't have to be truly wealthy to spend $2k on some stupid shoes on a credit card while sharing an apartment with a friend from university. But you have to be semi legit to buy a $200k car. Point being inflation across luxury goods isn't necessarily comparable.

 

Don’t think I want to risk being out of warranty on the 9A3 power train. Imagine cost of starter, water pump or generator replacement.

 

Can you define "Carrera"? Does this include GT cars, or you saying non GT cars? I paid $190K for a 6 year old GT3 and it feels right at home to me for the price. Gt2's/992 Gt3's easily seem like low to mid 200 cars to me for example.

The top 5% (target demographic for 911's) of the population is way wealthier than they were 5 years ago. I guarantee you Porsche has done their homework on the economic factors and their target demographic spending habits and ceiling.

I also don't think its a fair apples to apples comparison in logic alone in terms of historical prices. It seems we are comparing 2019 dollars as equal to 2024 dollars. $200K today is roughly $150-160K in 2019. So yeah GTS prices are inching or at $200K, but you aren't moving your arbitrary line in the sand to compensate for inflation. Aren't the other cars that are superior also getting more expensive in parallel?

I do agree that there is a ceiling for a GTS and I bet its right where Porsche has it priced because they have very smart people looking at hundreds of economic factors.

And no I am not interested in a hybrid 911 back to the original topic. I am interested in the technology and think it is cool, but I prefer the high revving GT cars. These cars are becoming faster just for the sake of it and not moving the needle for me where it matters.

 

Thanks for the support haha. Not easy speaking against something Porsche is doing on these boards

Your experience is what I feel the majority of the market will experience vs the diehards present on these forums that will consume whatever Porsche puts out and at whatever price.

I’m a huge Porsche fan and have been for decades and I still own 4x 911’s in various years and trims (mostly GT cars at this point). But I also own Ferrari and McLaren and my brain goes tilt with a Carrera surpassing 200k.

I agree that the average buyer who is thinking about getting into a 911 is going to hit the configurator, add a few options and be close to that 200k mark (before tax and any BS adm), and will begin to shop other options or simply buy a CPO 911 for far less.

No. Carrera definitely refers to Base to GTS. GT and Turbo cars have always been in a different category. I’ve spent the same money on all of my current GT cars with the most recent being 220k for a 991.2 GT3T.

The price feels fair given the specialness factor and market value of those cars. Your 6 year old GT3 is likely to lose very little value over the ownership period. A 200k hybrid GTS? Probably will lose a major amount of its value after the initial hype is gone.

I don’t think any of the prior posts haven’t taken inflation into account. I know I referenced it and even gave numbers based on basic inflation calculator (which is just an average). The reference to the 2019 MSRP was to show that there has been a 33% increase in price from then to today. And that is simply more than what inflation alone can account for but I’m sure there will be those here that will argue otherwise.

While other brands have absolutely increased their pricing, I haven’t see anything quite at the level of Porsche.

To further illustrate that point, the price point of a fully spec’d GTS is now in the same category as other exotic cars that were previously only comparable to Turbo S and RS in terms of price. So clearly Porsche has not only adjusted for inflation but has made a calculated decision to go further up market towards a different buyer.

Which is completely fine but I just don’t foresee strong market support at these prices. It wasn’t that long ago that you could get a discount on MSRP for a new 911.

Not to go completely off topic but since you brought of GT3 let’s look at what is going on with 992. Before any additional GT3 price increases hit, there are currently ~120 available in the secondary right now compared to 991.2 which has ~70 cars available. While there are absolutely other factors to consider, I would venture to guess that a major consideration of those choosing 991.2 over 992 is price. There is just more market resistance in a 200-300k world.

 

The hospital services increase is surprising but not surprising at the same time. So many unions here are getting 20% increases for their members over 3-4 yrs. Locum rates for specialties are also through the roof.

 

I specced a GTS yesterday - pretty loaded at $190K. PCCBs, Lugano Blue, Burmester two tone interior leather, Premium Package etc. Its basically a 530HP+ GT sports car that's sub 3 0-60, etc. And very comfortable. What exotics do you see on the market for $190K? Not Ferrari, Lamborghin, Mclaren etc. Maybe lower end Aston's. Not even Maserati. I'd rather have a Porsche GTS than the latter two. Now if you venture to where the 992 TTS will land - approx. $300K. Then you are into (starting to get into exotics).

There's a big range from a base Carrera ($125'ish) to a loaded GTS.

I will agree with your point that Porsche is going up market a little. And from my vantage point they are doing a pretty good job. But the 911 (non GT and non TT/S) offerings are still at least $100K below exotics.

 

I have changed my mind . I even had appraisals on my car and was in the process of making the move to start gathering up the money while I wait. Then I heard new car exhaust by itself . I posted a thread on it.

 

My point is and has been that once you break the 200k threshold, it’s a different market and different buyer. Anything 200-300k is on the table for comparison at that point as that is just the mindset of that buyer IMHO.

100-200k buyer is topping out their budget so a ~250-300k option is likely not on the table. A 200k+ buyer is at the low end of their budget and will look at what the GTS is in terms of “specialness” above all else and likely opt to spend a little bit more and get into something more appropriate.

Again my predictions are solely based on the buying profile of someone in the 200-300k category. This in no way takes away from the merits of the car which I have already stated are excellent.

As stated previously, I predict most GTS specs that hit the secondary will be pretty low to mid spec like the one you posted which is hardly loaded. It takes little effort to push the car past 200k.