Schn3ll

I am contemplating a tune but the engineer in me had to compare the 3 major tuners for any appreciable differences when making the decision who to go with. With a new handheld tuner from APR, it prompted me to do a deeper analysis on the base engine tunes and how they differ.

Just wanted to share for those that might be in the same predicament. I may be incorrect on a few of these, it's just what I could gather from each respective tuner's website. What's a little unclear is the hp/tq from Softronic and what octane is needed for these numbers.

Numbers are based on a 992 Base car and data is only relevant to the 992 platform:




I like the idea of the resetting of the ECU flash count from APR but the tunes are canned right now, and I would like to be able to customize with exhaust flap control and they don't have compatibility stated for MY 2024 yet.

Hope this helps anyone trying to sift through all the data.

Edit: Updated again with % gains over stock - it's a bit misleading as some have crank hp and others have whp.

ecf34

Thanks for putting this together. Cobb is another option (just received mine but have yet to install it): https://www.cobbtuning.com/products/...-carrera-s-gts

Schn3ll

Crap, I knew I was forgetting something.

I'll add it shortly and amend the first post.

M Engineering

The final dyno numbers listed there is not an accurate representation of a power comparison between these. At the end of the day, it's the delta of before/after tuning that makes the difference. It's the percentage gain that is important and what matters. You will find a lot of dyno numbers that are high also have high baselines as well. Dyno brand, DA that day, humidity, temp, etc. all play a factor in final output. A lot of generic especially European "server tunes" will also turn off engine knock thresholds and run cars in unsafe conditions to keep power output high. It's important to have a tuning solution that allows the end-user to view the empirical data on how their car is running. We provide this via datalogging that the end user can view and we can also review as well. By not having this available it makes you wonder what the car is doing or what is being hidden and it also limits support and diagnostics. I cannot tell you how many times we have retuned cars from other "tuners" on our own dyno to find some pretty insane shortcuts or blatant disregard for engine safety applied. That's not to say that there are not other good tunes out there, but there are certainly some on the market to watch out for and steer well clear of.

We are here to answer any questions anyone has about tuning these cars, we were the first to offer OBD2 tuning for this market and pride ourselves in being the tuning authority for all things 992. You can also PM us here or call us at 949.444.2150 or info@m-engineering.us
We charge a premium for our product because we offer the best solution you can possibly get.

-Charles@M

stiff///M

You sure APR can control exhaust valves and cold start delete? Also besides what M engineering mentioned with regards to dynos, I think your table has wheel hp and crank hp mixed for vendors.

edit. Also, I don't think APR's is wireless. Still need a laptop to plug into.

Angryinch

DATALOGGING IS KING!

@Softronic why do you recommend NOT disabling cold start (for a car with NO cats)?

Schn3ll

According to APR, yes: https://www.goapr.com/products/softw.../ECU-30T-992-U

APR just released the new wireless tuner yesterday.

dg108

I quoted from the Softronic site in another thread why that is. It has to do with circulating oil in a horizontal engine.

stiff///M

That product looks like it just plugs into the OBD port and then into a laptap. It allows you to tune from home but not wirelessly from what I understand after reading about it. So it ends up being similar to M-Engineering's except that you can access the all different tunes from their library instead of getting your tune emailed to you directly like ME.

Also, this is APR's response to the question in the other thread.

Quote:
- What kind of functionality is available? i.e. exhaust flap control, start / stop defeat, etc. and how do we go about making those requests if possible?
The only options we have on this platform right now are octane and Stage 1 or Stage 3.

jlegelis

At the end of the day, any tuner here can make the same power as others, they are all working with the same levers and *****, though each have there own specific 'special sauce, etc'. To me what matters most is to evaluate the customer experience, responsiveness, etc - at the end of the day that will likely color your tuning experience far more than just comparing features and $$$.

Angryinch

The oil is moved around via an oil pump under pressure, what does it matter that the engine is horizontal, vertical, sideways etc (in my mind)

silencei2

Worth noting about the COBB Accessport is the ability to switch maps using the Accessport as well as data log. This can all be done without needing a laptop as the Accessport can store logs and maps. You will still need to hook up the Accessport to a laptop to transfer these files on and off. You can also monitor engine parameters via the Accessport to look for knock events, AFR, boost, etc.

Schn3ll

Added

Softronic

Hello,
The octane is mentioned under the product and other info under FAQs:
​​​​​​"The performance software tuning results in these typical performance gains for stock vehicles, all files are tested with 93oct ." This is also thesame as 98 RON and 91 simply produces less power the same applies to the factory tuning, also its the same file for 93 and 91.
We also do not incrament the flash counter since we started to be the first company to offer port flashing to the customer in 2006. Options are also listed for all cars dating back to 2000 as they vary by the model.

Best,
Scott

mattchow

Cobb allows on the fly map switching? Last when I had Cobb on my 718, you had to flash and power down and etc, if you consider that on the fly, M Engineering and APR would be the same as well.