bluelines1974

I'm not talking about net income, but gross margins. The Model S had positive gross margins essentially from day one in 2013 (over 20% by the end of 2013), and it was the car that made EVs mainstream in North America. Each Lucid costs about $370k to make (i.e. the direct input costs) and sells on average for $140k. It is an epic train wreck of a business compared to Tesla. Yes, Tesla had the luxury of being the only real game in town, so they could offer a relatively expensive car with a relatively cheap interior, but that doesn't account for the disastrous economics of Lucid. It only survives at the whim of the Saudi backers. Rivian is not quite as bad, but it still costs them $235k to make each R1T / R1S.

CodyBigdog

In reverse order - Not sure the Model S made EV’s “mainstream” in NA. Not sure EV’s, in totality, are even close to being mainstream in NA. Not yet. The Model S is priced high enough that most buyers are looking for cheaper EV’s…probably why I see few Model S on the road where I live on the east Coast? But this is a side issue.

At the beginning, before there was any other EV competitors, Tesla’s COGS were low. Having non-union production helps keep costs low, and now that they are high volume manufacturer, no doubt Tesla has significant leverage with suppliers and how much they charge Tesla. Then, as already mentioned, the quality of materials and workmanship are sub-par for a premium brand. There’s a number of variables in determining the Gross Margin, and without access to the specific data from each manufacturer, I can only speculate as to why one manufacturer has lower costs. But i also know that carbon and other regulatory credits helped Tesla improve their Gross Margin.

https://stockdividendscreener.com/au...scal%20quarter.

PorscheObsessed

The thing about Gross margins is that you can’t buy groceries with it. Only operating margins gets you there. That being said, the whole discussion about Rivian and Lucid is about pre scale economics. Rivian can be profitable, Lucid needs different models besides luxury sedans. A strategic mistake on Lucid’s part that they didn’t lead with the Gravity first.
Lucid chassis and suspension tuning might be better than the Taycan. That’s a remarkable feat for a first time manufacturer.

CodyBigdog

IMO, it’s the consumers that ultimately benefit from have a wide diversity of different EV manufacturers. It helps keep prices down, and spurs innovation. God forbid that Tesla has a complete monopoly on EV’s. One reason why I am firmly against Tesla continuing to get tax payer subsidies, that ultimately, gives some of their cars a sales/pricing advantage.

CodyBigdog

Not to mention, and as far as tesla financial reporting - Tesla has been under several SEC investigations involving their financial/business accounting practices. Just one of the SEC complaints to the SEC:

“The whistleblower complaint contained a number of allegations about Tesla’s financials and its business practices, including that it improperly categorized repairs for years and that it had poor control over internal systems used for capturing business data that ultimately rolls up to financial and other company disclosures to shareholders.”

Not saying that Musk/tesla did anything illegal, but when it come to anything Musk does, or says…I take it with a huge grain of salt before passing judgement. As I said a few times - Musk is a master of “gaming” the system….and I don’t believe that cooking the books to help inflate stock prices, would be out of the realm of possibilities. But who knows? I’m not a forensic accountant….but do know that Musk walks the line.

bluelines1974

Well if you can’t buy groceries with positive gross margins, you certainly can’t buy them with negative ones. And if the car costs 4x to make what you can sell it for, pretty soon you’re lining up at the food bank.

There is a reason that gross margins are a key metric for automakers, since they give you the potential for future profit and free cash flow.

VarTheVar

What happened to this thread ? I thought we were gonna dog GTS owners. I'm outta here

aggie57

Musk is scared sh….ss of the Chinese EV manufacturers, he says as much when interviewed. They are also heavily subsidized but have a bigger and more receptive home market, and are building small affordable cars that are right-sized for the world outside the US.

HappinessProcured

I think you're giving them too much credit.

ali809

The 1/4 mile race looks staged

Mike818

Tesla would never use deceitful marketing.

dudeoverthere

Looks like the 911 tied the 911.

Jaye Bass

Most EV bros have never owned a fast car until getting their EV with instant torque...now add in nearly 9000lbs of wet weight and you have multiple little disasters waiting to happen.