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As far as Musk’s truck that he’s been hyping for 4 years…time will tell how well it sells? But only in America does it stand a chance.
Tesla now has competition, and in Musk’s own words, Chinese competition is formidable.
PS - Last time I looked, this is a Porsche forum, and the only reason for this thread is that it featured a 911, ie, reviews of cyber junk are irrelevant to this forum.
LOL. The fact that you mention a persons name for no reason tells me all.
Those Teslas are the definition of terrible value for money. My colleagues' X and S are in the 100k range and the build quality is simply sad. The one trick pony only gets you so far.
A CEO (chairman now?) that nearly cried in an earnings call, slashes prices and crushes the used market...reflects 1:1 with the performance of the company. EV market share went from 70s to 50s rather quickly. Let actual car manufacturers continue to bring real alternatives and I can see Tesla EV share in the US well into the 20-30% range.
if Twitter/X is a reflection of his managerial skills...sell Tesla stock quickly.
I took my 911 out Thursday night when it was 46F and the center of the dash had so many rattles, you'd think it was a Dodge.
I am very happy with my F150 Lightning. It's got a much bigger and more useful bed than the Cybertruck. I have a massive powered frunk... and powered tailgate. I've got more outlets everywhere. My cab is substantially larger with real buttons and multiple screens. Bluecruise rocks. With prior Tesla's as a guide, my real world range will be longer, because Tesla claimed range has been proven to be fraudulent. The F150 is a real truck unlike the unibody nonsense that Tesla is trying to rebrand. Sure, my 0-60 is only 3.8 secs, which honestly, is already too quick for a truck. You don't need 2.6s hauling hay bails or motorcycles in the back.
That sled test Tesla showed?
That F150 was on all season tires. The CT had offroad tires. Wake me up when the trucks are wearing the same rubber.
6ft bed?
Nope. The bulkhead at the back of the bed slopes with the back seats. It's only 6ft at the base of the bed and loses a full 6 inches as you move up.
Ball resistant windows?
Franz can lob a baseball with his weak-*** designer arm at nearly any modern car side window and it will be fine.
Bulletproof?
The windows aren't bulletproof and neither are the panels if you're firing something with more oomph than subsonic rounds.
Steer by wire?
You think that electric power steering is numb. At low speeds, it's so jarring that Tesla didn't trust a single new CT owner with driving the trucks near crowds -- that's why they all got into the passenger seat.
Faster than a 911?
The CT maxes out at 130MPH. A Base Carrera maxes out at around 180MPH.
Most Innovative?
Uh, not even in the truck space. Spend a little time with an F150 and experience the little touches like a step that pops out of the tailgate and a center console folds out into a desk. There's decades of design experience that make loading and unloading the truck a good experience. You will also find little utility luxuries like being able to adjust the pedals fore/aft with the touch of a button. Ford manages to produce a higher quality product with excellent fit/finish at a substantially lower price point than the CT.
...about that $60k RWD single motor spec
They'll never make it. They didn't publish any towing or load specs for it. It exists for PR. For less money, Ford gives you two electric motors and much more performance.
You're forgetting the Supercharger network!
Uh, my F150 will be able to use the Supercharger network in just a couple of months. It's been commoditized and is no longer a competitive advantage.
LOL. The fact that you mention a persons name for no reason tells me all.
What was the best selling car in the world again?
The fact remains - Musk IS the face of Tesla. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Unlike most corporate CEO’s, Musk has gone out of his way to make sure his face, his name is associated with the brand. That’s reality.
But back to the conversation point - my response was to your delusional comment about Teslas having “extremely negative (comments/reviews) for really no reason”.
“For no reason”??? Bwhahahahaha. To the contrary, Teslas have long been known for having poor material and build quality. Clearly, recent comments about Musk’s Cyber Junk indicate things really haven’t improved much….despite Tesla having had many years to get things right before releasing the Cyber Junk…but failed.
As to your question - In the US, cumulative through October of this year, the best selling vehicle(S) were not a tesla…in fact, the 2nd and 3rd best selling vehicles were also not teslas.
As to “world sales”, China bought the most Model Y’s. More than in the US. Sorry, but don’t really care how many Y’s are sold in China. Without the Chinese share of tesla sales, tesla would fall way back. The sad reality for Musk (which is why he is so concerned about his Chinese market)….as new and innovative Chinese EV’s begin to hit their market, Teslas will continue to lose market share to the Chinese brands. I believe in the last 2 years, Tesla market share has dropped a whopping 20%…maybe more? That’s the reality…and don’t expect the Chinese or European markets to turn things around for Musk, as, Europe and China won’t be buying the Cyber Junk in any significant numbers.
In the US, and despite continued price drops to shore up market share, tesla is still losing market share…and complicating maters, Musk’s drop in prices for new teslas has hurt the resale value for existing tesla owners. I have a neighbor who is a tesla owner, and is really pissed by the resale drop…and vowed never to buy another Tesla.
Ultimately, the true metric of whether a brand, any brand, represents good value and reliability, and therefore, warrants customer loyalty….will be if, in the coming years, whether existing Tesla owners come back to the Tesla trough…like Toyota and Honda owners have done for decades. Time will tell.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 12-02-2023 at 11:17 AM.
That thing is ugly as ****. Why would anyone buy that? I have Raptor R that does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds from the factory with 37-inch tires and looks ten time better then that.
Musk is a charlatan. He's also one of those guys that thinks he's really good at public speaking and doesn't believe that he needs any preparation.
Tesla got to where it is today thanks to subsidies courtesy of the American taxpayer.
Space X is funded almost entirely through US tax dollars.
Twitter/X shows us what little Musk knows about running an actual business when the taxpayer is not picking up the bill.
Elon may have an extra comma to his name than me, but all of my kids talk to me. So, I am the richer man.
Musk is a charlatan. He's also one of those guys that thinks he's really good at public speaking and doesn't believe that he needs any preparation.
Tesla got to where it is today thanks to subsidies courtesy of the American taxpayer.
Space X is funded almost entirely through US tax dollars.
Twitter/X shows us what little Musk knows about running an actual business when the taxpayer is not picking up the bill.
Elon may have an extra comma to his name than me, but all of my kids talk to me. So, I am the richer man.
That thing is ugly as ****. Why would anyone buy that? I have Raptor R that does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds from the factory with 37-inch tires and looks ten time better then that.
Who will buy the Cyber junk? Well, first off, you have a substantial, if not delusional Tesla following that seem to believe all of Musk’s hype and slick marketing propaganda. No doubt, some from this group will jump on the Musk propaganda train. Then you have the eclectic uber-rich, that will pick up one for novelty and conversation. Finally, there will also be some that view the cyber junk as a potential collectors piece.
After being a member of this Forum for a number of years, I am no longer surprised by the number of people that seem to have a lot of money burning a hole in their pockets…and need something to spend it on.
Musk is a charlatan. He's also one of those guys that thinks he's really good at public speaking and doesn't believe that he needs any preparation.
Tesla got to where it is today thanks to subsidies courtesy of the American taxpayer.
Space X is funded almost entirely through US tax dollars.
Twitter/X shows us what little Musk knows about running an actual business when the taxpayer is not picking up the bill.
Elon may have an extra comma to his name than me, but all of my kids talk to me. So, I am the richer man.
People (especially Tesla groupies) often forget that Tesla (under Musk’s leadership) almost went bankrupt, twice. The sale of “Carbon credits” , to the tune of billions of dollars, to other manufacturers, like Ford and GM, financially pulled the company back from the brink. Yes, both tesla and space X have greatly benefitted from government funding.
To his credit, one thing that Musk has been able to successfully do, is to game the system, and to leverage existing Government programs to his advantage. Do people remember the original tax subsidies to EV’s? It stipulated that after a manufacturer sold something like 100K EV’s, they would no longer qualify for government tax incentives. The logic at that time was…after a company had sold 100k+ EV’s, they were then considered to have established themselves as mature technology, and no longer in need of Government tax subsidies. Well, here we are in (almost) 2024, with teslas selling more than a million vehicles, and their cars STILL qualify for up to $7,500 in federal tax incentives. Master manipulation.
Oh, and Musk did NOT start, nor create Tesla. Not his idea. Not his “genius” as some have said. He bought into Tesla when the original creators were looking for additional funding sources.
IMO, continuing to give Tesla tax incentives, given their dominant market position at the moment, is not right, and certainly no equitable. Let the market do the sorting out, and remove all tax incentives. If nothing else, it would remove one of the Right’s talking points about EV’s….that the American tax payer should not subsidize EV’s.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 12-02-2023 at 11:28 AM.
This is a pretty one-sided take. As crazy as Musk may be, without him EVs would not have become mainstream anywhere near as quickly as they have. Regardless of whether or not he actually founded the company, it was the way he was able to hype the company that convinced equity investors to subsidize the huge losses for long enough to allow the company to survive (far more significant than government intervention). Tesla is now in the classic situation of being led by the person who was essential to its early growth but may be an impediment to its future success, but that doesn't discredit the early achievements.
I think it's also interesting to compare Tesla to other pure-play EV manufacturers like Rivian and Lucid, both of which still have negative gross margins (i.e. they can't even manufacture a car or truck with direct input costs less than the selling price). Tesla was able to build a company with positive gross margins very early on, so even when they were bleeding cash as a company, they had industry-leading gross margins. This kind of achievement (essentially the only truly successful North American or European new car company in modern history) can't be dismissed as some kind of coincidence that had nothing to do with Musk's abilities.
Originally Posted by CodyBigdog
People (especially Tesla groupies) often forget that Tesla (under Musk’s leadership) almost went bankrupt, twice. The sale of “Carbon credits” , to the tune of billions of dollars, to other manufacturers, like Ford and GM, financially pulled the company back from the brink. Yes, both tesla and space X have greatly benefitted from government funding.
To his credit, one thing that Musk has been able to successfully do, is to game the system, and to leverage existing Government programs to his advantage. Do people remember the original tax subsidies to EV’s? It stipulated that after a manufacturer sold something like 100K EV’s, they would no longer qualify for government tax incentives. The logic at that time was…after a company had sold 100k+ EV’s, they were then considered to have established themselves as mature technology, and no longer in need of Government tax subsidies. Well, here were are in (almost 2024), with teslas selling more than a million vehicles, and their cars still qualify for up to $7,500 in federal tax incentives. Master manipulation.
Oh, and Musk did NOT start, or create Tesla. Not his idea. Not his “genius” as some have said. He bought into Tesla when the original creators were looking for additional funding sources.
This is a pretty one-sided take. As crazy as Musk may be, without him EVs would not have become mainstream anywhere near as quickly as they have. Regardless of whether or not he actually founded the company, it was the way he was able to hype the company that convinced equity investors to subsidize the huge losses for long enough to allow the company to survive (far more significant than government intervention). Tesla is now in the classic situation of being led by the person who was essential to its early growth but may be an impediment to its future success, but that doesn't discredit the early achievements.
Oh, never intended to discredit his business prowess and savvy. He is a premier business gamer. My point was…as some people believe that Tesla/EV’s was Musk’s idea….it was NOT. Musk saw an opportunity, had the money from the sale of another company and ran with that opportunity…and good for him. But a lot has been written that clearly make the case that without the carbon credit income that Tesla derived from the Federal Government program, Tesla would not have made it. To be clear, Musk didn’t make the rules, but he knew how to capitalize on them.
I think it's also interesting to compare Tesla to other pure-play EV manufacturers like Rivian and Lucid, both of which still have negative gross margins (i.e. they can't even manufacture a car or truck with direct input costs less than the selling price). Tesla was able to build a company with positive gross margins very early on, so even when they were bleeding cash as a company, they had industry-leading gross margins. This kind of achievement (essentially the only truly successful North American or European new car company in modern history) can't be dismissed as some kind of coincidence that had nothing to do with Musk's abilities.
Way too early to make that comparison to either Rivian or Lucid. Not to mention that when tesla first came on the scene, Tesla had no EV competition. Just from hybrids. Today, new and emerging EV’s have to operate under a totally different business model than when Tesla was emerging.
Musk became CEO of tesla in October 2008. Tesla did not have it’s first profitable year until 2020. Or 12 years later.
My final comment about tesla/Musk is - Here’s a successful company, now selling over a million EV’s each year…that’s been in existence for about 15 years…and yet, they still get tax payer subsidies that continue to give Tesla’s a pricing/sales advantage. As an EV person, and as an Independent voter, i don’t think tesla should still qualify for tax payer money.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 12-02-2023 at 11:50 AM.
saw same kind of race between a tesla,aventador and 911 gts and gts won so..
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