siberian

Yep certainly the rush to LiFePO4 coupled with a BMS system which (to say it mildly) was and is not ready for prime time has had an impact.

Of course the complexity of today's vehicles with the never ending additions of more apps, sensors etc. are essentially killing any 12v battery. The LiFePO4 is a weight saving (like the brilliant logic of no spare tire) as well as a band-aid to mitigate battery demise. For those who justify the lithium batteries by saying it's only in RAS equipped cars should remember that 991 cars had RAS and AGM not lithium batteries and seem to work well in the sense that it wasn't a deficiency in effectiveness in the RAS system that MANDATED a switch to lithium ones. What lithium batteries do provide is more guaranteed and consistent current over AGM and wet batteries in a weight and size reduction (albeit at a staggering cost differential).

For over 20 years, and a parallel to (those in the network fields will agree) is the "urgent need" to migrate to IPv6 as is the case to move to a 24v system. Everyone knew that the 12v battery was dead and a need to go to 48v was imperative. Yes, some cars already have 48v with step down volt converters to satisfy all those appliances still on 12v but the migration is now beyond a "project to be implemented" but a dire necessity.
Many 992s and Cayenne have had battery failures and Porsche policy of washing their hands of these cases is The trouble is it's hard to see what SPECIFICALLY is causing these failures. The inane statement by Porsche that cars need to be driven 6k miles per year if not the battery risks failure is the most glaring mea culpa that their entire BMS architecture is suspect.

Lithium batteries have as all batteries their weak points but the culprit is not the battery per se but the monitoring system and the ever increasing number of tasks they are supposed to support. As to the environmental pollution lithium engenders is of course left for another discussion.

siberian

Mike818

LiFePO4 is a great technology, a much better / safer fit for replacing Lead Acid than other lithium chemistries. The mark of a decent LFP storage battery is a BMS that has cell temperature monitoring and low temperature charging cut off. It's a hallmark of youtube reviews of these types of batteries that they will tear them down and validate that this specific functionality is working properly. Unfortunately you can't use this feature in a car starting battery because it wouldn't work anymore below 0c.

There is another Lithium chemistry called LTO or Lithium Titanate Oxide that does have better low temp characteristics and is said to be far more rugged (full discharge without damage). It's just more exotic / expensive than LFP by a lot. Considering the cost of a replacement battery from Porsche though, you would think they could have used it.

Like most things it's not really the mistake that's the big deal, it's how they handle it. If they were offering no questions asked replacement of these batteries almost nobody would be complaining about this.

malba2366

The easy fix would be to allow dealers to unlock the BMS in the lithium batteries when it locks out due to low charge. There are third party services that can unlock the batteries but it is a huge hassle, and the other option is paying Porsche $2500+ for a new battery.

This whole thing seems to be the work of some lawyer who decided that from a risk management perspective it would be best just to brick the battery. A complete shame since it is a better technology.

dg108

Getting my T next week, curious to see which battery it has.

M3_to_911

Most likely AGM.

My T is Oct Build and it has AGM.

You can ask your SA and they can tell you what type of battery (Lithium or AGM) comes with your car based on VIN

dchang81

Good thing I saw this thread, took delivery of mine like a week ago, T with RAS, it has AGM

Antigravity

For all the persons getting their Cars soon, it would actually be best if you DO get the AGM option, so count your blessings. The reason is because you will have paid less upfront for the AGM option if they didn't provide it (I assume), but more importantly you will have the best of both worlds and be able to make your OWN decision on what battery type you want in the future and not be stuck with Porsches riduculously over-priced and propriatary Lithium Battery.

You also won't have to deal with the Dealer and warrantying your Porsche Lithium battery, then having to wait a month or more for stock of the Porsche Lithium Battery since several have reported there are waiting on Porsche replacement Lithium Batteries. In the end, if you choose, you will be able to swap to an aftermarket Lithium battery like Antigravity or another for about half the Price of a Porsche battery and actually get a better battery than Porsche offers. So its a complete WIN-WIN.

Fullyield

Agree with everything you said. But just checked the Porsche Configurator. RAS option is same price with AGM battery as it was with Li battery. Typical Porsche.

tna3

HINT: Update your battery finder on your website to include the current versions (992) of 911.

Mb111

Just picked up my new 4 GTS Cab with RAS that came with an AGM battery. Finance guy wasn't pleased because I told him I'd buy the insurance that covered a new battery for a few years if it came with a Lithium one.

dchang81

I bought the insurance assuming mine came with the lithium....

repcapale

Offering insurance for the insurance in case you never receive the Lithium.

Antigravity

Since the finder lists direct drop in plug in play options this unfortunately would not be quite the case since the variants with stock lithium will have the additional LIN Bus style connection so it wouldn't actually be a direct plug and play replacement per se as additional alteration/modification would be needed. We may however just update the finder to reflect "please contact" so it can be clarified and addressed.
Best regards,

tna3

Thanks. And those with AGM batteries would be direct plug and play?

Antigravity

Correct, any model with an AGM stock battery should be able to utilize ours for a plug and play swap.