rasetsu

I always laugh when I get those. Like why is the marketing department even bothering wasting time and money with those? Do they just want to rub them in my face?

VarTheVar

IMO there's not really a problem. They're making as many cars as they can. They're moving Boxster/Cayman production to a different line and should be able to produce 20% more 911s.

The dealerships have to purchase the cars they have on their lots. 2 decades ago they were all eating dirt trying to move 911s while paying interest to floor the cars in the showroom, and people were getting discounts. Now they can't produce enough cars so dealer charge markups and they don't have to pay to keep 911s on the floor any longer. Porsche desirability is through the roof. It's a winning combination for almost everyone involved. 99% of the population can't afford a brand new 911, so who are we really crying for here?

dhirm5

I call BS on this. What sane person wouldn't take a 100% gain on that car?

ipse dixit

Because that's a classic low ball offer.

https://www.dupontregistry.com/autos...sport--classic

dhirm5

Oh sh*t. Had no idea. I stand corrected.

Porsche992

hahaha I think that's the one I saw

Porsche992

To clear my original post, I don't mind Porsche making hard to get products.. I have an issue with them selling to speculators and making it easy for them to flip the cars for profit, and the dealers support this because they also make a profit.. instead of , just doing more cars for drivers.

VarTheVar

The people that have access to the cars either pay a markup, buy a lot of cars so they have a relationship with the dealers, or both. I don't really see anyone flipping Porsches except for dealerships. All of them get laughed out of the Facebook for sale groups when they post something for too much money

shrimp money

I don't understand why people like Manny Khoshbin duck around with peasant sports cars. He sucks up allocations for GT3, Targa Heritage, GT4RS, and soon a GT3RS. For what? So he can flip them for money? Dude has cars with two commas and you're snagging peasant Porsches, for what? No one at that level is impressed with a 4RS.

But It's also what happens when you're wealthy, you don't have to wait in line, and you have options.

silversurfer6

This is similar to what happened with Patek Philippe and the owner Mr Stern has tried to explain this various times by saying this cannot be controlled. He was talking about the second hand market.

I think Patek does not allow official dealers to sell ADM. But can he control the second ahnd market? Even his own dealers that sell second hand watches?

Porsche in Europe does not allow ADM. Not sure what it is allowed in the US but certainly for new cars this can be controlled.

silversurfer6

Coming back to this discussion.

1) It is weird dealers are allowed to sell with ADM. In Europe we still get discount for all models and for GT cars we have to pay retail. The demand is not lower than the US and there are more customers than the car supply

2) It is “weird” that dealers in the EU are enforcing this - same with Rolex and Patek - because the EU rules are very open so Porsche cannot force the dealers to sell at retail. They sell at retail because the manufacturers tell them officially to do so and they will loose the dealership if they dont

3) So the problem seems to be more US based and PCNA does not force the same rules as porsche in europe

4) Who gets the car is up to the dealer and this makes sense. Porsche should not get involved into this and to be honest logistically it cannot be done. One of the jobs of the dealer is to decide which customer gets which allocation and when. Of course special customers that have direct contact with the factory are treated differently and it makes sense - they bought tens of cars so they have priority and they buy every car. If one of these customers flips a car then there should be a warning but again hiw this is controlled. I have a feeling most cars that are flipped are not from vip/direct porsche customers but from people the dealers made a bad decision to sell to.

At the end of the day there is only one solution. PCNA to force the dealers not to be allowed to sell with any ADM. Forcing would be unofficial of course. Still though the prices of the second hard or flip cars will not change.

silversurfer6

By the way I was offered a gt3 touring and now an st for retail. I am not ready for this but i might push for a gt2rs.

Now here is the catch. My dealer will find out if a sell the car and this means no easy buying of any kind of porsche for me. So you are comitting to keep the car for at least 3-5 years so you cannot buy it as an investment since who knows what the future holds.

I think the above is logical and this is how it works. Now if the car is triple the price and I sell it at that - is this flipping after 3-5 years?

Emosgarage

I’ve been told that Porsche tracks Bring a Trailer and flags the people who are buying and immediately flipping the cars, so that they cannot buy another one. (they can easily ID the original buyer from the VIN).

shrimp money

Maybe for clients they don't care about. But they're not going to do it to someone well known in the car space.

rasetsu

PCNA has little to no power in dictating to dealers with regards to ADM. The US has dealer franchise laws that vary from state to state that deeply protect the dealers because dealers lobby (political term for "pay off") politicians hard to maintain these laws. PCNA can carrot or stick dealers via allocations and resources but when pretty much every single dealership charges ADM, PCNA has no leverage against that behavior. The solution is to abolish or dramatically revamp these antiquated dealer franchise laws state by state but law makers generally don't want to take that on as they are all funded by dealer groups.

Here's an essay from the US DOJ explaining the dealer franchise model in the US. The laws were put into place to initially protect the "small business" of dealers but they are nearly all national conglomerates now. https://www.justice.gov/atr/economic...les-car-buyers