Is a 992.2 Manual coming ?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,347
Likes: 3,171
From: Florida
A few factors I have mentioned in previous threads cast doubt on the manual being available on anything but the carryover engines from the 992.1 cars. I don't think manual will be available on any hybrids.
- the current manual has a torque limit that has already been reached on the 992.1 cars (thus the Sport Classic was detuned) - I know the transmission can handle more but Porsche will remain conservative
- electric motors add lots of torque (unless they torque filled at low RPM only, this may easily exceed the torque limit)
- current manual does not have the ability to accommodate an electric motor inside the transmission (the PDK does) I know there is talk about the motor being somewhere else now, so who knows if this is still an issue
- to allow for electric motors, Porsche would need a new manual transmission. This would require substantial development costs i.e. crash testing (need to do this for each transmission).
- minor, but removal of manuals helps to streamline production and could help packaging design of the vehicle (maybe can find more room for batteries / motors this way)
- none of Porsche's competitors offer a manual, where would upset customers even go if they took the manual away? Emira is basically vaporware and "Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious" applies
- sadly the 0-60 times have become a highly regarded statistic for rags to write about. Porsche wants to be able to get some bragging rights back with sub-3 second 0-60 times on non-Turbo cars (big T).
- Porsche wants to move upmarket and they might see a trend that consumers spending $140k+ want hybrid assist and more power, more tech - and Porsche will happily charge more for 911's
- Lastly, the take rate is very low - manuals not even offered in China. It makes less business sense every year that goes by.
- the current manual has a torque limit that has already been reached on the 992.1 cars (thus the Sport Classic was detuned) - I know the transmission can handle more but Porsche will remain conservative
- electric motors add lots of torque (unless they torque filled at low RPM only, this may easily exceed the torque limit)
- current manual does not have the ability to accommodate an electric motor inside the transmission (the PDK does) I know there is talk about the motor being somewhere else now, so who knows if this is still an issue
- to allow for electric motors, Porsche would need a new manual transmission. This would require substantial development costs i.e. crash testing (need to do this for each transmission).
- minor, but removal of manuals helps to streamline production and could help packaging design of the vehicle (maybe can find more room for batteries / motors this way)
- none of Porsche's competitors offer a manual, where would upset customers even go if they took the manual away? Emira is basically vaporware and "Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious" applies
- sadly the 0-60 times have become a highly regarded statistic for rags to write about. Porsche wants to be able to get some bragging rights back with sub-3 second 0-60 times on non-Turbo cars (big T).
- Porsche wants to move upmarket and they might see a trend that consumers spending $140k+ want hybrid assist and more power, more tech - and Porsche will happily charge more for 911's
- Lastly, the take rate is very low - manuals not even offered in China. It makes less business sense every year that goes by.
GT2RS, Turbo S, GT3RS.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 59
Likes: 111
From: Canadian Prairies
Wild Guesses here.
Porsche is hyper aware of its images, and they will try their best to put a positive spin on implementing hybrid.
Think about resurrecting the 718 name when they put the flat 4 in to the 982; and made the decision to assemble the Carrera GT in Leipzig to gain credibility for the plant.
If Hybrid is inevitable, it will likely start with top of the line "luxury oriented" models first, such as Turbo/Turbo S, and perhaps the S. There is no doubt that the performance on paper will be incredible.
Given that the manual is one of the main differentiating factors for Porsche, but overall a small market, they will likely continue to trim down the models that are available with the Manual.
Other than the GT product, it may be only be down to 1 or 2 models. T will be unlikely, as it is usually used to as the last 2 model year. So that leaves Base and GTS being the only candidates.
For the base, there is zero technical challenge to put a manual in there as it is already available in the T trim.
GTS will be a wild card, because it has historically been a S plus, and thus based on the S engine. That being said, it is not unthinkable for GTS to have a different, and more enthusiast oriented drivetrain that is completely separate from the S, as in the case of the 982.
However, Porsche has already recently been very conscious about offering enthusiast options on high margin products. So it is not unthinkable for the manual to be offered on the GTS only, and then towards the end of the cycle and offer it on the T model for the last 2 MY.
On a complete separate note, I'm actually optimistic for the hybrid set up. Comparing 3.0 with 2 turbos vs 3.0 with electric motor, with the right tune, the hybrid can actually feel more "naturally aspirated".
Porsche is hyper aware of its images, and they will try their best to put a positive spin on implementing hybrid.
Think about resurrecting the 718 name when they put the flat 4 in to the 982; and made the decision to assemble the Carrera GT in Leipzig to gain credibility for the plant.
If Hybrid is inevitable, it will likely start with top of the line "luxury oriented" models first, such as Turbo/Turbo S, and perhaps the S. There is no doubt that the performance on paper will be incredible.
Given that the manual is one of the main differentiating factors for Porsche, but overall a small market, they will likely continue to trim down the models that are available with the Manual.
Other than the GT product, it may be only be down to 1 or 2 models. T will be unlikely, as it is usually used to as the last 2 model year. So that leaves Base and GTS being the only candidates.
For the base, there is zero technical challenge to put a manual in there as it is already available in the T trim.
GTS will be a wild card, because it has historically been a S plus, and thus based on the S engine. That being said, it is not unthinkable for GTS to have a different, and more enthusiast oriented drivetrain that is completely separate from the S, as in the case of the 982.
However, Porsche has already recently been very conscious about offering enthusiast options on high margin products. So it is not unthinkable for the manual to be offered on the GTS only, and then towards the end of the cycle and offer it on the T model for the last 2 MY.
On a complete separate note, I'm actually optimistic for the hybrid set up. Comparing 3.0 with 2 turbos vs 3.0 with electric motor, with the right tune, the hybrid can actually feel more "naturally aspirated".
Last edited by YWG_YYZ; Dec 26, 2023 at 10:19 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 37
Likes: 17
Limited manual
The 992.2 lineup is already accounted for . There are no manuals aside from gt models (and that still hasn’t been confirmed) While we speculate on the 992.2, I know that Porsche is already working on the 993 with beta scheduling starting sometime in 2027. By the time the 993 comes out in 2029/2030- there will be very very very little knowledge of what a manual transmission is from the core of Porsches buyers . The future is not manuals. It’s alot more complex then just epa rules . Though epa rules are a large factor , there is also a large push for standardization in autonomous, semi autonomous, functionality . I’m not talking about self driving cars . Think of break assist , lane assist , etc. There is proven data that these functions improve on road safety . And manufacturers including Porsche will not invest into a future that is lagging critical elements centered around environmental concerns as well as safety ones . Sorry to break the bad news but manuals are not the future . I love my manual but I also understand what is at stake . Demand for Porsches are not at stake if manuals dissapear . Neither are they at stake with removal of analog clusters . Porsche has been removing them slowly and wala , now they are completely gone . By the time the 993 comes out , Porsches customer base will adapt to its new fully digital dash . And they will also adapt to the removal of manuals . Don’t be fooled by spec , use common sense . There are no other manufacturers that pose a threat to Porsche with offering manuals . It’s over . But it will take some time to fully remove them.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 205
Likes: 136
The 992.2 lineup is already accounted for . There are no manuals aside from gt models (and that still hasn’t been confirmed) While we speculate on the 992.2, I know that Porsche is already working on the 993 with beta scheduling starting sometime in 2027. By the time the 993 comes out in 2029/2030- there will be very very very little knowledge of what a manual transmission is from the core of Porsches buyers . The future is not manuals. It’s alot more complex then just epa rules . Though epa rules are a large factor , there is also a large push for standardization in autonomous, semi autonomous, functionality . I’m not talking about self driving cars . Think of break assist , lane assist , etc. There is proven data that these functions improve on road safety . And manufacturers including Porsche will not invest into a future that is lagging critical elements centered around environmental concerns as well as safety ones . Sorry to break the bad news but manuals are not the future . I love my manual but I also understand what is at stake . Demand for Porsches are not at stake if manuals dissapear . Neither are they at stake with removal of analog clusters . Porsche has been removing them slowly and wala , now they are completely gone . By the time the 993 comes out , Porsches customer base will adapt to its new fully digital dash . And they will also adapt to the removal of manuals . Don’t be fooled by spec , use common sense . There are no other manufacturers that pose a threat to Porsche with offering manuals . It’s over . But it will take some time to fully remove them.
Secondly, I don't entirely disagree with your overall sentiments, but at least for 992.2, there is a good chance of seeing 992.2 Carrera T with manual transmissions again. I doubt Porsche will miss out on that low-hanging fruit for higher unit volumes at a premium. VW desperately needs higher unit volume sales of 911 to save the entire group at the moment (no joke). Currently, the 911 is the "Atlas" for the VW world.
Lastly, I do believe Porsche will offer a manual transmission even in the 994 generation but may limit it to higher-end GT (RS) pr S/T products only. The premium that Porsche can garner outweighs your concerns above, at least for more limited-production models.
Last edited by double-o-seven; Sep 8, 2024 at 01:44 AM.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 37
Likes: 17
First of all, project codename "993" was the last air-cooled Porsche produced until the mid 90s. The next generation project codename may be "994" instead.
Secondly, I don't entirely disagree with your overall sentiments, but at least for 992.2, there is a good chance of seeing 992.2 Carrera T with manual transmissions again. I doubt Porsche will miss out on that low-hanging fruit for higher unit volumes at a premium. VW desperately needs higher unit volume sales of 911 to save the entire group at the moment (no joke). Currently, the 911 is the "Atlas" for the VW world.
Lastly, I do believe Porsche will offer a manual transmission even in the 994 generation but may limit it to higher-end GT (RS) pr S/T products only. The premium that Porsche can garner outweighs your concerns above, at least for more limited-production models.
Secondly, I don't entirely disagree with your overall sentiments, but at least for 992.2, there is a good chance of seeing 992.2 Carrera T with manual transmissions again. I doubt Porsche will miss out on that low-hanging fruit for higher unit volumes at a premium. VW desperately needs higher unit volume sales of 911 to save the entire group at the moment (no joke). Currently, the 911 is the "Atlas" for the VW world.
Lastly, I do believe Porsche will offer a manual transmission even in the 994 generation but may limit it to higher-end GT (RS) pr S/T products only. The premium that Porsche can garner outweighs your concerns above, at least for more limited-production models.
the 993 is me just using an example . Which clearly is wrong code name .
As per google - The next Porsche 911 generation after the 992.2 is expected to be the 998-generation, which is expected to debut in 2028. I personally don’t know what it will be called .
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Thinking of Buying a Porsche? Do These 10 Things First
Joe Kucinski
Pixar Pals Turned Into 1-of-1 Porsches!
Michael S. Palmer
Theon Goes Full Carbon Fiber With Stunning New Build
Verdad Gallardo
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Non-Flat Six Porsches You Can Buy For Under $100K
Joe Kucinski
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 37
Likes: 17
No chance
they are allocating manuals to special cars like s/t and s/c which are not only limited and expensive , they are cars that they know most will not drive and will sit in collections . The t which they can rename or keep as is the only one that might keep it . Makes no sense for them to add a manual to a s which is supposed to be faster then a base with using a manual trans . The s will be a tuned version of base . They will not deviate from using same engine and same turbos accross their lineup - only the turbos will just use larger turbos which already exist now on a 992.1 and can be purchased as a mod to take current 640hp higher . Whatever power increase these cars get , it’s nothing new . Current generation has engines and turbos that can be unlocked for an extra 100 hp. They wjll just add batteries that will help with reducing emmisions and better fuel economy .
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 983
Likes: 1,199
From: Upstate SC
Manuals will return for the GT3, T, Turbo.
Plus special editions.
The manuals aren’t long for this world but the US take rate is far too high to remove completely. It’s a unique differentiator porsche has vs. competition. They will retain manuals for as long as they can, but it will certainly be in many 992.2’s.
Plus special editions.
The manuals aren’t long for this world but the US take rate is far too high to remove completely. It’s a unique differentiator porsche has vs. competition. They will retain manuals for as long as they can, but it will certainly be in many 992.2’s.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 265
Likes: 376
From: TN
they are allocating manuals to special cars like s/t and s/c which are not only limited and expensive , they are cars that they know most will not drive and will sit in collections . The t which they can rename or keep as is the only one that might keep it . Makes no sense for them to add a manual to a s which is supposed to be faster then a base with using a manual trans . The s will be a tuned version of base . They will not deviate from using same engine and same turbos accross their lineup - only the turbos will just use larger turbos which already exist now on a 992.1 and can be purchased as a mod to take current 640hp higher . Whatever power increase these cars get , it’s nothing new . Current generation has engines and turbos that can be unlocked for an extra 100 hp. They wjll just add batteries that will help with reducing emmisions and better fuel economy .
And I’d argue an S should have more POWER than a base/T, assuming you are talking 0-60 time when you say faster, then yes there is a scenario where even a 992.1S is likely slower 0-60 than a PDK Base/T, or even (gasp) a PDK Cayman GTS. But I don’t race my car, the pleasure of the additional power and rowing my own gears greatly offsets the 0.5s it takes me to do it. I’m pretty confident Porsche is aware that many people buying these cars are not simpletons and realize there is more to a car than a 0-60 time.
Last edited by Brad Stinson; Sep 8, 2024 at 09:07 AM. Reason: format
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,816
Likes: 1,736
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 4,053
Likes: 2,869
Purely speculation by many of us here whom believe the S will be a detuned version of the .2 GTS engine. Nothing official from PAG, yet.
Edit: If the above becomes an actual reality then the manual in the S will be DOA.
Last edited by RatherJaded; Sep 8, 2024 at 11:07 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 69
Likes: 109
I dont know if it has been discussed already but there is a T coming shortly this year to order (quotes in Germany are already available) and there will be a convertible version of the T and it is pretty sure that this model comes with manual option.
I´m not sure about hybrid on the upcoming S (about to be released early 25).
I´m not sure about hybrid on the upcoming S (about to be released early 25).
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,270
Likes: 1,705
From: SF/Marin County
I dont know if it has been discussed already but there is a T coming shortly this year to order (quotes in Germany are already available) and there will be a convertible version of the T and it is pretty sure that this model comes with manual option.
I´m not sure about hybrid on the upcoming S (about to be released early 25).
I´m not sure about hybrid on the upcoming S (about to be released early 25).