Well, now you're moving the goal posts.

I thought the discussion was limited to within the 911 range, otherwise the discussion is really a non sequitur.

 

Me? Well, I did an epic 4k mile cross country adventure on the pandemic "autobahn". With the experience, I don't have to speculate what a 992 is like on the German autobahn -- it's no hypothetical to me, because I got to cruise at silly speeds for hours and hours. Even post pandemic, there are a number of states with 85MPH speed limits and flow of traffic well north of that. So, if speed is your thing, yeah, you can use it, even in post-pandemic.

That being said, the real advantage of the S/GTS isn't just felt at the top of the rev range. You feel it everywhere, because it makes so much more torque off of the bottom. You don't have to be going fast to feel the grunt. Suggesting and saying that you can't use that power on public roads just isn't true. You can experience it even if you're never north of the speed limit.

 

I need 500hp but I actually track my cars..... On the street, a base Carrera is hard to find a better value proposition....

 

Ok. Let's keep it Carrera. There's a poll I"m sure you've seen asking how much people spend on options. Most spend between $15-45k. That wide range more than allows for a stripper S to be cheaper than a loaded T, and having spent considerable time on the T thread, I can tell you there are plenty of Ts being spec'd with $40k in options. So, yeah, many people are choosing a T over an S. Not the most accurate measure, but certainly the closest.

And that's the point: It depends where you live. If you use the Autobahn frequently, sure. I not only live 30 mins from canyon roads, I also have a great stretch of road between where I live and the next town where I've done top speed in my 450HP Macan. I almost ran out of road and don't think I can use the power of an S on a consistent enough basis for it to make sense for me. Having lived most of my life in Canada and the US, I don't see where you can do that without putting people at risk or going to jail. Here in Mexico, I do it all the time and if I get stopped once per year, it's too frequent. And I stop because I'm decent. because I can outrun them and they don't have the communication systems or the manpower to do a high speed chase. I do quite enjoy that about living here. Point is, despite my situation, I still don't believe I'll use more than the power of the T.

Exactly.

 

I really enjoy Nick Murray's videos.

 

I feel like you’re still missing something though.

I mean, there’s really two things.

One, you do not have to be going top speed to use all of the HP. HP is relative to engine RPM. You can use all of the HP in first gear.

But two, as others have stated, you can use the higher torque at a much wider (basically all drivable) RPM range. So, you’re using more HP for a given rpm, regardless of whether or not you’re using the peak.

So, to keep talking about not using the extra HP or focusing on high speeds is too narrow IMO for both reasons stated above.

But at the end of the day, everyone can like different cars for different reasons. Manual and Cab were requirements for me. So, my options were really just S or GTS.

 

Smh when “experts” think high hp/tq is only about top end speed…

 

@jhenson29 I get the argument. You're right that everyone is different. Smashing the gas pedal takes zero sill and gets boring very fast. None of the Porsche people I know drive that way, but I guess others do. Perhaps experts that know more than I.

 

I floor my car all the time on normal roads where the speed limit is 45-50. Try the paddles if you want to redline. In first/second gear you don’t need to be going that fast. Try it out, it’s extremely possible and great to hear the engine singS You don’t need to be going 193mph to redline. The car has many gears ya know?

 

Again, you're moving the goal post.

Lots of people might prefer a heavily loaded T at 160k over a stripper S at 125k. And that preference would ostensibly have nothing to do with HP between two trims.

They might want a sunroof, leather interior, PCCBs (assuming availability), etc., which a stripper S would not have.

Again, you'd have to compare similar cars with the only difference between HP, or lack thereof.

Question is, assuming all else being equal, would people actually pay more for a similarly equipped 911 with less HP.

I don't know the answer to that -- certainly not as a matter of fact.

I have my guesses, but those are just guesses.

 

But remember all of the people clamoring to detune their S/GTS?

https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1293...ra-engine.html

All of the cool kids are doing it.

 

@ipse dixit I think you missed this.

I have no idea what you mean by moving the goal post. You wondered something for which nobody, including perhaps Porsche, has answer to because it doesn't exist. I provided some reference points to illustrate that there is no absolute correlation between $ and HP, though at first glance it can seem that way. Take it or leave it. It's all I've got.

 

Not to further confuse the issue, but if you want more power, you can tune the T to S levels of hp and torque for about $2.5k...a very cheap upgrade if you find it lacking.

 

1. Warranty voided
2. If you look at a dyno chart of a tuned Base with stock turbos, it’s not going to look like an S or GTS dyno chart. You won’t be making the same kind of power.

The price delta for an S is indeed worth it if power is your thing.

 

That I believe.