Rumor: all 992.2 are hybrids EXCEPT Base and GT cars
08-27-2023, 12:44 AM
#61
blah blah the 992.2 will have a mix of turbo, hybrid and NA. Choose the flavor you love. Yawn.
08-27-2023, 12:51 AM
#62
Let’s say we put credence into that theory.
Why would PAG leak that info and why to Johnny and Spike?
Lots of guys, including folks here on RL, have a dotted line to some very powerful and knowledgeable people at PAG, but the information they are told is provided with the understanding that it’s not for public consumption yet.
So it begs the question. Why leak this info now and why to these two?
Why would PAG leak that info and why to Johnny and Spike?
Lots of guys, including folks here on RL, have a dotted line to some very powerful and knowledgeable people at PAG, but the information they are told is provided with the understanding that it’s not for public consumption yet.
So it begs the question. Why leak this info now and why to these two?
08-27-2023, 02:05 AM
#63
Racer
Thread Starter
Those are special editions that they build because it’s easy money and generates buzz about the brand. The range toppers are Turbos and RS cars and none of them have manuals. The launch cars are never manuals either. Germans are pragmatic to a fault and Porsche’s PDK gearbox is superior to a manual in every quantifiable way.
08-27-2023, 02:19 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
the first hybrid 911 will be the turbo and it won't be plugin.
the best advice i can give re. auto journalists is ignore the ones who think they know the most.
the best advice i can give re. auto journalists is ignore the ones who think they know the most.
The following users liked this post:
Pivot (08-27-2023)
08-27-2023, 05:37 AM
#65
2. rumours were 3.6 would be NA + mildhybrid (hence bigger engine to offset for turbo power loss as well), but that would be too awesome.
any of those fits the idea perfectly.
The following 3 users liked this post by dixonk:
08-27-2023, 12:21 PM
#67
1. they need more power to compensate for higher weight, mildhybrids system power alone wouldnt offset for additional weight, which means car would be slower then 992.1, that cant happen obviously. Besides after two price hikes in 2023 competition is selling way stronger cars on paper now, they need to lower the gap.
2. rumours were 3.6 would be NA + mildhybrid (hence bigger engine to offset for turbo power loss as well), but that would be too awesome.
any of those fits the idea perfectly.
2. rumours were 3.6 would be NA + mildhybrid (hence bigger engine to offset for turbo power loss as well), but that would be too awesome.
any of those fits the idea perfectly.
What competition are they chasing? Corvette and M cars have had a huge power to price advantage over the 911 for many years. The 911 is and always has been about a balanced vehicle where the chassis perfectly handles the power being put down...this is where the the competition falls short and why the premium is justified. Porsche won't put in big power upgrades it unless they feel the chassis can safely handle it; there is also a hierarchy of performance that they have always maintained and they will not put out S/GTS models that clearly outperform GT3 models (where Turbos/hybrids will not go).
The 3.6L rumors came about because the initial Euro 7 emissions rules would have made it impossible to pass them with a higher compression Turbo engine, those regulations were changed so that the Turbos will still be ok. I don't have a full understanding of the rules, but I would guess that the hybridization push in the 911 is has something to do with meeting those regulations. Other European automakers such as BMW, Audi and Mercedes are also placing these mild hybrid systems with small batteries in all their 6 and 8 cyl vehicles so there has to be some compliance reason why they are all doing it.
08-27-2023, 02:31 PM
#68
What competition are they chasing? Corvette and M cars have had a huge power to price advantage over the 911 for many years. The 911 is and always has been about a balanced vehicle where the chassis perfectly handles the power being put down...this is where the the competition falls short and why the premium is justified. Porsche won't put in big power upgrades it unless they feel the chassis can safely handle it; there is also a hierarchy of performance that they have always maintained and they will not put out S/GTS models that clearly outperform GT3 models (where Turbos/hybrids will not go).
The 3.6L rumors came about because the initial Euro 7 emissions rules would have made it impossible to pass them with a higher compression Turbo engine, those regulations were changed so that the Turbos will still be ok. I don't have a full understanding of the rules, but I would guess that the hybridization push in the 911 is has something to do with meeting those regulations. Other European automakers such as BMW, Audi and Mercedes are also placing these mild hybrid systems with small batteries in all their 6 and 8 cyl vehicles so there has to be some compliance reason why they are all doing it.
The 3.6L rumors came about because the initial Euro 7 emissions rules would have made it impossible to pass them with a higher compression Turbo engine, those regulations were changed so that the Turbos will still be ok. I don't have a full understanding of the rules, but I would guess that the hybridization push in the 911 is has something to do with meeting those regulations. Other European automakers such as BMW, Audi and Mercedes are also placing these mild hybrid systems with small batteries in all their 6 and 8 cyl vehicles so there has to be some compliance reason why they are all doing it.
4gts and gts already outperforms gt3 models in terms of 0-100 (or 0-60 mph), but downforce + weight makes a drastic difference, so not much will change here. I doubt 4gts will be much faster with added hybrid powertrain weight, mb 3.1-3.2 tops compared to 3.3 now.
Also, keeping base carrera as 3.0 can make it an 'entry' 911, since the 718 is gone. That would also makes sense and would let them keep the 'entry' price a bit lower, since the car tech would be way less complicated.
The following users liked this post:
Charles Everson (08-27-2023)
08-27-2023, 09:26 PM
#69
I can't even understand why a Porsche 911 future production rumor is relevant as one can't even go in to a dealership to buy and drive away in a new car. Since decision to pickup is 6-36 months, wait for the actual news, you'll still have plenty of time to wait for anything they announce.
The following 3 users liked this post by ndmiller:
08-27-2023, 10:38 PM
#70
dude, i have no clue behind the reasoning, I saw official info that was sent to dealers and thats what was in it
4gts and gts already outperforms gt3 models in terms of 0-100 (or 0-60 mph), but downforce + weight makes a drastic difference, so not much will change here. I doubt 4gts will be much faster with added hybrid powertrain weight, mb 3.1-3.2 tops compared to 3.3 now.
Also, keeping base carrera as 3.0 can make it an 'entry' 911, since the 718 is gone. That would also makes sense and would let them keep the 'entry' price a bit lower, since the car tech would be way less complicated.
4gts and gts already outperforms gt3 models in terms of 0-100 (or 0-60 mph), but downforce + weight makes a drastic difference, so not much will change here. I doubt 4gts will be much faster with added hybrid powertrain weight, mb 3.1-3.2 tops compared to 3.3 now.
Also, keeping base carrera as 3.0 can make it an 'entry' 911, since the 718 is gone. That would also makes sense and would let them keep the 'entry' price a bit lower, since the car tech would be way less complicated.
Theres a lot of space to make the 3.0 with higher HP. My opinion, the reasoning behind going with the 3.6 would be to get rid of the turbos and get back the N/A sound. There is some risk going turbo AND hybrid. I do believe an N/A 3.6 + hybrid would go over way better than a 3.0 turbo + hybrid with the Porsche crowd. It wouldn’t be about the numbers, just the driving experience.
08-28-2023, 01:23 AM
#71
Theres a lot of space to make the 3.0 with higher HP. My opinion, the reasoning behind going with the 3.6 would be to get rid of the turbos and get back the N/A sound. There is some risk going turbo AND hybrid. I do believe an N/A 3.6 + hybrid would go over way better than a 3.0 turbo + hybrid with the Porsche crowd. It wouldn’t be about the numbers, just the driving experience.
Looking into things a bit, the 3.6L turbo hybrid makes a lot of sense, for unfortunate reasons.
A larger displacement, lower compression engine will generate less NOx emissions, dialing down the boost and replacing the lost power with a hybrid motor does the same. The hybrid also becomes necessary with the displacement increase to overcome the loss in fuel economy. The Turbos will stay because the NA 3.6L would need a big battery to replicate the power of the 3.0T, and they can not add a 200-300 lb battery to the car.
This is all a compliance exercise to meet Euro 7/fuel economy regulations, not to make the cars perform or sound better.
08-28-2023, 11:24 AM
#72
Pro
1. they need more power to compensate for higher weight, mildhybrids system power alone wouldnt offset for additional weight, which means car would be slower then 992.1, that cant happen obviously. Besides after two price hikes in 2023 competition is selling way stronger cars on paper now, they need to lower the gap.
2. rumours were 3.6 would be NA + mildhybrid (hence bigger engine to offset for turbo power loss as well), but that would be too awesome.
any of those fits the idea perfectly.
2. rumours were 3.6 would be NA + mildhybrid (hence bigger engine to offset for turbo power loss as well), but that would be too awesome.
any of those fits the idea perfectly.
08-28-2023, 07:55 PM
#73
Racer
Thread Starter
08-28-2023, 08:14 PM
#74
Drifting
08-28-2023, 08:22 PM
#75