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It's not the ripple effect from the supply chain disruptions that is driving the price increases. Not for the 911. Its the realization from people who wanted to own one, that electrification is the end of the road for this car, and they are jumping in now before its all over. Ask your salesman how long the waiting list is for the 718 EV. My bet is - close or near zero.
It will be a 2024, and get ready for some grave disappointment if you decide to pursue a build. Dealers don't car about cash deals (they would rather it not be) and you the buyer has zero leverage when it comes to 911. Virtually no dealers are selling base 911s (heck, they themselves cannot even get base allocations) or frankly any 911 at msrp unless there is some kind of a story going along with the deal. Will you find a dealer(s) that will take your deposit at msrp? Sure. Will you ever see that allocation, nope. Not trying to be a downer, but its the state of things with 911 and not changing anytime soon.
Thank you for the 2024 info; that's what I was hoping for. As far as being a 'downer', not at all. I'm a realist, and like to tell it like it is, and same thing when I'm told. Ha ha. After driving the 2nd used 911 next week (with PSE this time), and finalizing my configuration (around $135K), will tell GM that if he can do it for straight MSRP, to give me a call. Depending on his reply, I might try to order it elsewhere, before considering something else. Fortunately, I don't have to have a C2, and already feel it's just not worth that Porsche is charging now, mostly due to the circumstances of the last 2 years IMO... and because they can. And now dealers are piling on that too. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm just not going to participate. As for a story, there's kind of one, as I sold my big ex-house to the Porsche GM when they opened in El Paso, TX, after I was diagnosed with an incurable stage 4 leukemia. Still cannot shake it after 8+ years, and having spent (and still going) a small fortune in experimental treatments, hence being more frugal now. But he didn't seem open to sell me at MSRP, and I understand that. If he can sell the cars for the $15K over they want, more power to them. But I won't buy one with any kind of add-on, period. Will wait to see what he says after I make a formal offer. And yes, I'd be perfectly fine waiting... as long as the price doesn't go up, and the current configuration I have is for a 2024.
Originally Posted by McNamara
Disagree. These are still mass produced automobiles. Nothing has inherently changed about the production of the cars, only the glut of people with excess cash. The chances are much more likely that we will still "revert to the mean" and this demand will soften considerably with the economic cycle. In fact it will probably drop below pre-pandemic demand if we have a real recession (which we will sooner or later).
That's exactly what I feel. I NEVER saw a base Porsche sell for MSRP, let alone over it... until recently. And with the looming recession, and improving labor situation, plus chip production, it'd probably reverse sooner rather than later IMO. And we're talking about a base car, not a limited production GT3RS. People here have recently reported buying even GTS 911s at MSRP, so it's already happening.
Originally Posted by nyca
It's not the ripple effect from the supply chain disruptions that is driving the price increases. Its the realization from people who wanted to own one, that electrification is the end of the road for this car, and they are jumping in now before its all over.
It's maybe both, but the former was (and still is, to some degree) undeniably true for all auto manufacturers. What the future will be is hard to predict, but a recession is all but imminent with current FED policy on clamping down on inflation hard... which they want to see at only 2%. Then labor and chip production are improving, therefore supply situation improving too. Do I ever expect ADMs going away on GT cars? Nope. But on a freaking base 911? Absolutely. Ha ha. But we'll see until when. Will keep you guys posted what dealer says, in case you're interested. Take care, and thank you again for all the great posts and insights. Always great to compare different points of view . Hope everybody enjoyed their weekend.
They will put you on the list for MSRP. I'm on a list at MSRP, but its really a hedge play for now awaiting some kind of economic dislocation that shakes up the market - better to be on a list than not on one. You never know what might happen.
They will put you on the list for MSRP. I'm on a list at MSRP, but its really a hedge play for now awaiting some kind of economic dislocation that shakes up the market - better to be on a list than not on one.
Exactly. And thank you for explaining how that process works; sounds fair to me. I haven't bought a used car in decades (I'm a very picky guy. Ha ha), and wouldn't mind a pristine, low-mileage 992 if savings were substantial over new. But paying the same or more for one than a new one, is absolutely out of the question for me, so not an option. Will research other alternatives in the mean time, like maybe the MB GT? Suggestions welcome. And will keep you posted how things go with dealer here. Thank you again for all your great help .
On the alternative note, I'm basically looking for a sports car that is (firm, but) comfortable to travel, with that last part a must, so rather sacrifice a little on the sport side if needed, to make that happen (like no S-PASM, and plugging symposers). But want a great handling experience for canyon runs (no tracking here), so no Panamera suggestions, please. They handle great for their size, but it's a whale of a car. And don't need any more power than a base 911 (even 350HP would be enough). The only issue almost impossible to eliminate on a sports car (without lots of disassembly and work) is road/tire noise, but don't want it any worse than a 911. Thanks gang.
I used to say I would not pay an ADM, yet a week ago today, I paid $3,500 over on a 2023 Ford Raptor. Got my GTS at MSRP a year ago in March. Crazy times!
wouldn't mind a pristine, low-mileage 992 if savings were substantial over new. But paying the same or more for one than a new one, is absolutely out of the question for me.
Issue here is most pristine 2022 or 2023 preowned (if you can find one to your needs) are still trading at over original MSRP. The words savings and discount do not currently exist with 992 cars. It is the old supply and demand game at its finest.
If you are willing to wait for an allocation it should be MSRP. Pay ADM to cut the line. I put a deposit down ($1K) for a 992 T at MSRP now waiting for allocation to build.
Last edited by shehatezme; 05-22-2023 at 08:55 PM.
I used to say I would not pay an ADM, yet a week ago today, I paid $3,500 over on a 2023 Ford Raptor. Got my GTS at MSRP a year ago in March. Crazy times!
$3,500 over on a Raptor ain't that bad, some have paid way more. Bad *** vehicle for sure, enjoy!
Just curious. I got my last Porsche at $11K below MSRP, but that was almost 7 years ago. I understand MSRP now, but no way I'd pay a penny over, especially for a freaking base car. Never imagined a base 911 would have that much demand, but guess I was wrong. Ha ha. Anyway, my local dealer wants 15 grand over MSRP for a $135K+ Carrera I configured. Just curious if it's just where I live (El Paso, TX), and the fact it's the only dealer within hundreds of miles. Or it's a national issue. And I know the GM, since I sold him my ex-house. But it's a Group1 dealer, so I know there's not much he can do. If I could get one built at MSRP not too far away, I might do that. Otherwise, will wait until supply catches up with demand... or the other way around. Thanks gang.
I have a new 23 carrera t i May let go. Pm me if interested
If you are willing to wait for an allocation it should be MSRP. Pay ADM to cut the line. I put a deposit down ($1K) for a 992 T at MSRP now waiting for allocation to build.
I am afraid a little bit of a disconnect from whats going on in the market currently. Anyone deciding today they want to build and purchase a new 911 will be waiting in some form for an allocation. ADM or MSRP it does not matter. A motivated ADM buyer may get priority but will still need to wait (not counting the rare perfect timing scenario where one customer drops out of their allocation and it suddenly is made available to another before ferezing etc.). Dealers are not coming even remotely close to receiving enough build slots to meet their demand and they are not just sitting with open allocations on the managers desk (unless the dealer is taking it for themselves to build something for the store).
Just a couple weeks ago when I was picking up my ordered 992, I sat with my SA whom I am close with and we were looking at the demand orders and waitlists (all 992 trims, does not matter). Even he knows most of the people in their system waiting will not be getting a car unless they stay on board for several years waiting (at which point we will be past the 992 generation). It's not that they do not want to sell these waiting customers cars (again, not even talking about ADM or MSRP factors here), they simply cannot get enough allocations to meet the demand. Until this levels off with supply, nothing is changing and a lot of would be customers (even many willing to pay ADM) will remain waiting.
Funny thing about ADM..
Right as covid was hitting and there was a talk of US shutting down, I got a call from a Rolex AD, offering 10% off no-date sub. I'd have pulled trigger if it was a date sub, so I declined and I still don't have a sub.
Heading into covid just like everyone else, I figured I could get discounts on pretty much anything I wanted. Thinking I wanted a 992, I placed an order I believe around Apr of 21 and was told MSRP deal. I thought I could get some discount, but they weren't budging and I wanted to enjoy it sooner with less traffic, so I agreed. What's more funny is I was told 30k ADM on GT3 that was just announced.
I thought I could wait a bit and get a GT3 under MSRP. You know how that turned out.
I'm not sure if we'd get back to getting deals on a lot of things, but one lesson I learned, if you can swing it at the time, go for it. It far outweights the hassle of calling around dealers, keep checking in, etc, not to mention ADM is far more now on GT3, the car got pricier and I wasted 2 years of enjoyment, no PTS.
If it's a matter of principle that you won't pay over, I respect that but I don't think it's worth it personally.
I have a new 23 carrera t i May let go. Pm me if interested
Hey, thank you for the offer, but unfortunately, I need a PDK so the wife can drive it if I need to borrow her SUV to tow my motorcycle somewhere.
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
You can always make more money. Time? Not so much.
Wish that was the case with me, but was basically forced to retire from working at 53, eight years ago (do some small projects from home now, and manage my investments). And I've spent several 911s dealing with my cancer so far, so I don't have that option anymore. Ha ha. My wife hasn't worked for decades, so need to leave her well off, not only for her, but for my 2 daughters (to never be a financial burden to them). So my self-imposed limit of the $135K C2 I configured is set in stone. I'd probably buy something much cheaper if it doesn't materialize, like an M4, Supra, etc. We'll see what happens. I just came back from riding the 3 sisters (TX Hill Country) on my BMW bike, so I have a toy to play with . And it's probably more fun on the bike than a car; more visceral, inches from the asphalt at full lean. But only on weekdays, of course. Hardly any vehicles, and no cop encounters. Tires destroyed, with that awful asphalt (see below), but it was fun. Take care gang.
1BTD (05-23-2023),alin2 (05-23-2023),catdog2 (05-23-2023),Motorin Mark (05-23-2023),Schn3ll (05-23-2023),Wilder (05-23-2023) and 1 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Hey, thank you for the offer, but unfortunately, I need a PDK so the wife can drive it if I need to borrow her SUV to tow my motorcycle somewhere.
Wish that was the case with me, but was basically forced to retire from working at 53, eight years ago (do some small projects from home now, and manage my investments). And I've spent several 911s dealing with my cancer so far, so I don't have that option anymore. Ha ha. My wife hasn't worked for decades, so need to leave her well off, not only for her, but for my 2 daughters (to never be a financial burden to them). So my self-imposed limit of the $135K C2 I configured is set in stone. I'd probably buy something much cheaper if it doesn't materialize, like an M4, Supra, etc. We'll see what happens. I just came back from riding the 3 sisters (TX Hill Country) on my BMW bike, so I have a toy to play with . And it's probably more fun on the bike than a car; more visceral, inches from the asphalt at full lean. But only on weekdays, of course. Hardly any vehicles, and no cop encounters. Tires destroyed, with that awful asphalt (see below), but it was fun. Take care gang.
05-21-2023, 02:25 PM
. Hope everybody enjoyed their weekend.
