Notices
992 2019-Present The Forum for the Non-Turbo 911
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

I could only wait 250 miles

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 21, 2023 | 08:17 PM
  #16  
Vicbastige's Avatar
Vicbastige
Three Wheelin'
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 1,464
From: behind the 8 ball
Default

Originally Posted by srf409
Exactly! Some guys just can't get that fact and see the break in "procedure" concocted by Porsche's legal dept is there to prevent new owners from getting themsleves killed early in their ownership period.
Why does the legal only care about owners safety only for a break in period? Are there any examples of cases where there was an injury with a car early in ownership and the plaintiff's claim was "I didn't realize this sports car was dangerous?". I can share I am aware of no case law where that has taken place and if there were, the protection that the legal department would install wouldn't be through a veiled break-in process I can assure you. There would be stickers all over the car and manual advising DIRECTLY about it so as to be unequivocal and obvious. the break-in protocol is designed to protect the functionality of the engine. Follow it or don't.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 11:22 AM
  #17  
Quikag's Avatar
Quikag
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,137
Likes: 254
From: DFW
Default

I buy cars to drive and very rarely keep cars out of warranty. I take care of them and understand mechanical sympathy, warming fluids, etc. If my GTS blows because I rev it up occasionally prior to 1,000 miles or whatever Porsche may want to go back to the drawing board.

Last edited by Quikag; Feb 22, 2023 at 11:24 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 12:26 PM
  #18  
doug_999's Avatar
doug_999
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,858
Likes: 1,258
From: Chicago
Default

Originally Posted by Vicbastige
Why does the legal only care about owners safety only for a break in period? Are there any examples of cases where there was an injury with a car early in ownership and the plaintiff's claim was "I didn't realize this sports car was dangerous?". I can share I am aware of no case law where that has taken place and if there were, the protection that the legal department would install wouldn't be through a veiled break-in process I can assure you. There would be stickers all over the car and manual advising DIRECTLY about it so as to be unequivocal and obvious. the break-in protocol is designed to protect the functionality of the engine. Follow it or don't.
The Legal Department has probably more to do with that break-in procedure than the engineers.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 12:45 PM
  #19  
Nein Eleven's Avatar
Nein Eleven
Pro
 
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 676
Likes: 614
From: CA
Default

Originally Posted by doug_999
The Legal Department has probably more to do with that break-in procedure than the engineers.
The engineers would typically give the legal department a recommendation based on their testing, analysis, warranty data, and technical intuition. Then the legal department (and probably finance/warranty department) would ask about a worst case scenario and the engineers would start looking at worst case tolerance stacks, harsh climate conditions, borderline oil performance, neglectful driver behavior, increased factors of safety, etc. to crunch the numbers on a truly worst case and overly conservative recommendation. Then the lawyers would say, “danke schoen, we’ll use that one.”

Hell, there may even be some legacy model influence from the widowmaker days (930 Turbo).
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 12:47 PM
  #20  
Pivot's Avatar
Pivot
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1,765
From: England
Default

Originally Posted by srf409
Exactly! Some guys just can't get that fact and see the break in "procedure" concocted by Porsche's legal dept is there to prevent new owners from getting themsleves killed early in their ownership period.

Is Owners Manual written for the new car buyers and the legal team assumed that the buyers of new cars don't know how to operate 911, however, the drivers in the second-hand market are the experienced drivers? I don't think this argument would stand in court.

Also, I was under the impression that optional hi-vis jacket gives people immunity from getting injured. :-)
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 12:55 PM
  #21  
tourenwagen's Avatar
tourenwagen
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,057
Likes: 4,845
From: NJ
Default

Originally Posted by doug_999
It is called -"we don't want you to kill yourself"

...so you can come back and buy another car later
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 01:00 PM
  #22  
tourenwagen's Avatar
tourenwagen
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,057
Likes: 4,845
From: NJ
Default

Originally Posted by doug_999
The Legal Department has probably more to do with that break-in procedure than the engineers.
Marketing too... brands like to brag about the percentage of their cars that are still on the road.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 01:33 PM
  #23  
doug_999's Avatar
doug_999
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,858
Likes: 1,258
From: Chicago
Default

Originally Posted by Pivot
Is Owners Manual written for the new car buyers and the legal team assumed that the buyers of new cars don't know how to operate 911, however, the drivers in the second-hand market are the experienced drivers? I don't think this argument would stand in court.

Also, I was under the impression that optional hi-vis jacket gives people immunity from getting injured. :-)
A used car could be sold by any number of people. That used car usually does not have new brakes or brand new slippery tires. Ultimately, no harm no foul on Porsche's behalf if you crack up a used car. New car? hmmmm, the manual did say not to go crazy sir...



Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 02:40 PM
  #24  
Vicbastige's Avatar
Vicbastige
Three Wheelin'
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 1,464
From: behind the 8 ball
Default

Originally Posted by srf409
It is always the same when "break-in" is discussed as some Dudes absolutely have a death grip on the printed word from their manual and just can't comprehend the fact that Porsche prefers for new owners to gradually learn the high performance vehicle that they sell to any Joe Scmuck who can come up with the entrance fee. These guys have to be from the same clan who was firmly convinced by the printed word that social distancing and a 5 cent paper mask would save their lives when the China Flu came to town.
I can see you have a very strong opinion on this topic.

A decent read:
https://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/

Last edited by Vicbastige; Feb 22, 2023 at 02:51 PM.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 10:01 PM
  #25  
Shogunade's Avatar
Shogunade
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 6,095
Likes: 4,091
From: Mid Atlantic
Default

Originally Posted by srf409
It is always the same when "break-in" is discussed as some Dudes absolutely have a death grip on the printed word from their manual and just can't comprehend the fact that Porsche prefers for new owners to gradually learn the high performance vehicle that they sell to any Joe Scmuck who can come up with the entrance fee. These guys have to be from the same clan who was firmly convinced by the printed word that social distancing and a 5 cent paper mask would save their lives when the China Flu came to town.
China Flu. What an ***.
Old Feb 22, 2023 | 10:33 PM
  #26  
detansinn's Avatar
detansinn
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 6,075
Likes: 8,959
From: Doylestown, PA
Default

Over the past 35 years or so, I’ve always followed the OEM break-in recommendations. Even for non-OEM, when my engine builder gives me directions on break-in, I follow them as well.

During break-in, I don’t do highway driving. I vary engine load constantly. I make sure that the rings seat and the parts get familiar. I don’t treat RPM limits as a step function and I tend to make things a smooth transition. I also am very attentive to heat cycling — I warm the engine fully up and let it cool completely down. No short trips.

Once I am free and clear of the break-in, with the oil up to temp, I beat on my cars and motorcycles mercilessly. I drive them hard and use the tachometer like I paid for the whole thing. When I traded-in my 992C4S with more than 35k miles, one of folks at the dealer exclaimed “It sounds like a PEC car!”, which I took as a compliment of the vehicle being properly enjoyed. It was! And its new owner is enjoying it as well.

For me, 250 miles is a good Sunday afternoon of twisty backroad barnstorming. I recall my 992 break-in to have been just a couple of weeks and we had five cars at the time. When you actually drive your cars or motorcycles, break-in miles and a little discipline aren’t a big deal.

Will ignoring break-in result in instant and dramatic failure? Likely not. Can it result in the engine making a little less power than a properly broken in example? Certainly possible. Does it lead to a shorter engine life? Sadly, most 911s aren’t driven enough to ever find out.
Reply
Old Feb 23, 2023 | 12:49 AM
  #27  
Nein Eleven's Avatar
Nein Eleven
Pro
 
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 676
Likes: 614
From: CA
Default

Originally Posted by Shogunade
China Flu. What an ***.
Hey! This guy does his own research! And I’m sure that he has the engineering and science degrees and professional experience to back up what he’s posting!
Reply
Old Feb 23, 2023 | 01:22 AM
  #28  
ipse dixit's Avatar
ipse dixit
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,828
Likes: 14,769
Default

Break-in might now be as divisive as PDK v. MT, and just slightly ahead of S v GTS
Reply
Old Feb 23, 2023 | 03:41 PM
  #29  
Pivot's Avatar
Pivot
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1,765
From: England
Default

Originally Posted by ipse dixit
Break-in might now be as divisive as PDK v. MT, and just slightly ahead of S v GTS

Mexican stand-off between Flippers vs Keepers :-)
Reply
Old Feb 23, 2023 | 04:26 PM
  #30  
gatorfast's Avatar
gatorfast
Burning Brakes
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 785
Likes: 497
From: SFla
Default

Never understood the "legal" justification for a break in period - it makes no sense. Why would you think some printed instructions inside an owners manual that probably 75% of car buyers never read would somehow stop someone from driving dangerously or that somehow it would absolve Porsche of liability for that individual injuring themselves or someone else with the car? Weird argument.

The break in procedure is there from the guidance of the engineers that built the car. Nothing to do with legality. If you dont follow the break in procedure will your engine be worse off mechanically? Possibly. But Porsche believes it is best to follow it. Same as they recommend using the proper oil spec, premium fuel, etc. You can choose to follow Porsche's recommendations or not. Dont see why you wouldnt though considering they are the ones who built the car.
Reply



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 05:09 PM.