Can you turn a base into a S?
11-23-2022, 06:13 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
I want to take discussion back to the OP's point because I think it's a good question and all the usual suspects here have put in their worthless opinions.
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
They aren’t worthless opinions, you can turn a base into an S if you want to spend the money. It’s cheaper for a number of reasons to go get one of your S 911s in stock at the dealer at MSRP.
11-23-2022, 06:17 PM
#32
I want to take discussion back to the OP's point because I think it's a good question and all the usual suspects here have put in their worthless opinions.
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
The following users liked this post:
minn19 (11-23-2022)
11-23-2022, 06:25 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I want to take discussion back to the OP's point because I think it's a good question and all the usual suspects here have put in their worthless opinions.
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
11-23-2022, 06:26 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
I want to take discussion back to the OP's point because I think it's a good question and all the usual suspects here have put in their worthless opinions.
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
My understanding - and I may be wrong - is that the base comes with an engine that is bored differently than all the other models. That creates less displacement which keeps a base, well, a base. So wouldn't a true S conversion require you to bore out the cylinders? As they say in some circles, "there's no replacement for displacement", right?
Sigh.
11-23-2022, 06:35 PM
#35
11-23-2022, 07:16 PM
#36
wow, what a thread - sure went off topic and we have all extremes here.
To the OP - if you can get a hand on a none-S faster and at a good price. Go for it. I did not want to wait or pay above MSRP for an S. I bought a lightly used base from the lot in an instant and thought I will drive it and see if I miss anything. Turns out, I don't miss the S power much but also know I could easily add some with the M-Engineering tune. A lot of the other improvements of S vs Base also depend how you use and if you value it. I use my car for street only, sometime spirited driving but no street racing either.
Some of my thoughts:
- Suspension - I lower all my cars and I still would lower a S or GTS, they are all too high! The improvements from Base to S are not important to me for my street use.
- Brakes - the base brakes are very capable for that car. I even just reduced braking power in favor of less dust and have no issue, also custom painted my calipers. Still perform plenty good for my street use.
- Power - the Base is nimble, quick, and fun to throw around corners, sure some more power is always nice but I don't miss it (had much higher powered cars before, i.e. I know how it feels). So far, I did not get the itch to tune it. If I do sometime, probably M-Engineering.
- Wheels - I always go aftermarket anyway.
- Exhaust - I had PSE but still went with aftermarket IPE, S does not sound any better than Base.
- Options I don't miss - if you compare a S w/o many options vs base, you miss nothing. If you care about RAS and PDCC, got to go with S. For me, these did not matter.
- Options my car simply did not come with - (1) front lift, after not caring much about it, now that I am lowered it would be nice to be able to lift it to go over bumps. Not a big deal but would be convenient. (2) 18 way seats and leather would be nice - you can option all those on a Base. None of these misses are deal breakers for me and have nothing to do of Base vs S.
I probably missed a few things. Don't get me wrong, if cost difference and availability don't matter - always pick the S or GTS, but if you look for a fantastic car to enjoy on the street and want to have some fun - the Base offers plenty of that.
JMHO
To the OP - if you can get a hand on a none-S faster and at a good price. Go for it. I did not want to wait or pay above MSRP for an S. I bought a lightly used base from the lot in an instant and thought I will drive it and see if I miss anything. Turns out, I don't miss the S power much but also know I could easily add some with the M-Engineering tune. A lot of the other improvements of S vs Base also depend how you use and if you value it. I use my car for street only, sometime spirited driving but no street racing either.
Some of my thoughts:
- Suspension - I lower all my cars and I still would lower a S or GTS, they are all too high! The improvements from Base to S are not important to me for my street use.
- Brakes - the base brakes are very capable for that car. I even just reduced braking power in favor of less dust and have no issue, also custom painted my calipers. Still perform plenty good for my street use.
- Power - the Base is nimble, quick, and fun to throw around corners, sure some more power is always nice but I don't miss it (had much higher powered cars before, i.e. I know how it feels). So far, I did not get the itch to tune it. If I do sometime, probably M-Engineering.
- Wheels - I always go aftermarket anyway.
- Exhaust - I had PSE but still went with aftermarket IPE, S does not sound any better than Base.
- Options I don't miss - if you compare a S w/o many options vs base, you miss nothing. If you care about RAS and PDCC, got to go with S. For me, these did not matter.
- Options my car simply did not come with - (1) front lift, after not caring much about it, now that I am lowered it would be nice to be able to lift it to go over bumps. Not a big deal but would be convenient. (2) 18 way seats and leather would be nice - you can option all those on a Base. None of these misses are deal breakers for me and have nothing to do of Base vs S.
I probably missed a few things. Don't get me wrong, if cost difference and availability don't matter - always pick the S or GTS, but if you look for a fantastic car to enjoy on the street and want to have some fun - the Base offers plenty of that.
JMHO
11-23-2022, 08:52 PM
#37
wow, what a thread - sure went off topic and we have all extremes here.
To the OP - if you can get a hand on a none-S faster and at a good price. Go for it. I did not want to wait or pay above MSRP for an S. I bought a lightly used base from the lot in an instant and thought I will drive it and see if I miss anything. Turns out, I don't miss the S power much but also know I could easily add some with the M-Engineering tune. A lot of the other improvements of S vs Base also depend how you use and if you value it. I use my car for street only, sometime spirited driving but no street racing either.
Some of my thoughts:
- Suspension - I lower all my cars and I still would lower a S or GTS, they are all too high! The improvements from Base to S are not important to me for my street use.
- Brakes - the base brakes are very capable for that car. I even just reduced braking power in favor of less dust and have no issue, also custom painted my calipers. Still perform plenty good for my street use.
- Power - the Base is nimble, quick, and fun to throw around corners, sure some more power is always nice but I don't miss it (had much higher powered cars before, i.e. I know how it feels). So far, I did not get the itch to tune it. If I do sometime, probably M-Engineering.
- Wheels - I always go aftermarket anyway.
- Exhaust - I had PSE but still went with aftermarket IPE, S does not sound any better than Base.
- Options I don't miss - if you compare a S w/o many options vs base, you miss nothing. If you care about RAS and PDCC, got to go with S. For me, these did not matter.
- Options my car simply did not come with - (1) front lift, after not caring much about it, now that I am lowered it would be nice to be able to lift it to go over bumps. Not a big deal but would be convenient. (2) 18 way seats and leather would be nice - you can option all those on a Base. None of these misses are deal breakers for me and have nothing to do of Base vs S.
I probably missed a few things. Don't get me wrong, if cost difference and availability don't matter - always pick the S or GTS, but if you look for a fantastic car to enjoy on the street and want to have some fun - the Base offers plenty of that.
JMHO
To the OP - if you can get a hand on a none-S faster and at a good price. Go for it. I did not want to wait or pay above MSRP for an S. I bought a lightly used base from the lot in an instant and thought I will drive it and see if I miss anything. Turns out, I don't miss the S power much but also know I could easily add some with the M-Engineering tune. A lot of the other improvements of S vs Base also depend how you use and if you value it. I use my car for street only, sometime spirited driving but no street racing either.
Some of my thoughts:
- Suspension - I lower all my cars and I still would lower a S or GTS, they are all too high! The improvements from Base to S are not important to me for my street use.
- Brakes - the base brakes are very capable for that car. I even just reduced braking power in favor of less dust and have no issue, also custom painted my calipers. Still perform plenty good for my street use.
- Power - the Base is nimble, quick, and fun to throw around corners, sure some more power is always nice but I don't miss it (had much higher powered cars before, i.e. I know how it feels). So far, I did not get the itch to tune it. If I do sometime, probably M-Engineering.
- Wheels - I always go aftermarket anyway.
- Exhaust - I had PSE but still went with aftermarket IPE, S does not sound any better than Base.
- Options I don't miss - if you compare a S w/o many options vs base, you miss nothing. If you care about RAS and PDCC, got to go with S. For me, these did not matter.
- Options my car simply did not come with - (1) front lift, after not caring much about it, now that I am lowered it would be nice to be able to lift it to go over bumps. Not a big deal but would be convenient. (2) 18 way seats and leather would be nice - you can option all those on a Base. None of these misses are deal breakers for me and have nothing to do of Base vs S.
I probably missed a few things. Don't get me wrong, if cost difference and availability don't matter - always pick the S or GTS, but if you look for a fantastic car to enjoy on the street and want to have some fun - the Base offers plenty of that.
JMHO
I appreciate the tips and prospective. Have too many internet comedians who have to put in their 2 cents and take a thread to a different direction.
SO..in terms of power of the base ...
So over the last 2 days I took my 2022 base with sport Chrono, S size wheels and exhaust etc. And took some cars to Mexico for some real world roll on races . I'm sure results will be different with different types of controlled races but on the street...something more real-world.
THe whole point was to see how my base does against these cars on the street because too many people like to regurgitate Dyno readings and have no real comparative knowledge.
All "races" were roll on pulls from around 50mph to 115/ 120 mph.
Cars were 2016 Turbo, 2022 992 GTS, 2019 GT3..all PDK.
We did several pulls on each and switch drivers and got similar results. Nothing scientific all feel on the seat pulls.
First was the GT3 . my base was almost neck and neck all the way until traffic and fear of the police. Did it several times but the gt3 would slowly start to edge me out after 110mph
2nd was against the GTS. Same results. All on sport plus and boost button. The GTS started to barely pull ahead after 100mph. Switch drivers and did the same with the GTS pulling ahead about a half a car.
3 rd race was against the turbo. Forget it. No way..BUT.....i was still behind it.
So I'm sure after 120mph the base will be left behind but it shows that the base has alittle more power then documented. (Interms of street usability)
so in terms of power the base isn't too lacking and feel a tune may help at the higher illegal speeds...
Handling is another matter of course. ..the car does well but lacks some confidence compared to my old 991T. So perhaps a coilover system like Bilstein may improve it? RAS and PDCC are still options on a S and have never noticed RAS when I drive my wife's car..(she has it and swears by it)
In terms of power none of these cars are gonna be able to match the top EVs so don't go there....the whole point since I can't get a new S or want to pay more then a $40k premium + who knows what by next year with rising MSRPs etc.....I wanted to see if I could get my base to be close to a S if possible.
My wife says buy a used 991.2 turbo S and shut up.......but she already has one!
Thought I share some of my experiences on what I'm trying to build or buy... I don't care about the warranty, or if I track or don't track ....or even plan to resell the car. It's just about debating certain options and directions to take because of the crazy stupid market which is effecting everyone.
Thanks
The following users liked this post:
Wilder (09-02-2023)
11-23-2022, 09:03 PM
#38
I appreciate the tips and prospective. Have too many internet comedians who have to put in their 2 cents and take a thread to a different direction.
SO..in terms of power of the base ...
So over the last 2 days I took my 2022 base with sport Chrono, S size wheels and exhaust etc. And took some cars to Mexico for some real world roll on races . I'm sure results will be different with different types of controlled races but on the street...something more real-world.
THe whole point was to see how my base does against these cars on the street because too many people like to regurgitate Dyno readings and have no real comparative knowledge.
All "races" were roll on pulls from around 50mph to 115/ 120 mph.
Cars were 2016 Turbo, 2022 992 GTS, 2019 GT3..all PDK.
We did several pulls on each and switch drivers and got similar results. Nothing scientific all feel on the seat pulls.
First was the GT3 . my base was almost neck and neck all the way until traffic and fear of the police. Did it several times but the gt3 would slowly start to edge me out after 110mph
2nd was against the GTS. Same results. All on sport plus and boost button. The GTS started to barely pull ahead after 100mph. Switch drivers and did the same with the GTS pulling ahead about a half a car.
3 rd race was against the turbo. Forget it. No way..BUT.....i was still behind it.
So I'm sure after 120mph the base will be left behind but it shows that the base has alittle more power then documented. (Interms of street usability)
so in terms of power the base isn't too lacking and feel a tune may help at the higher illegal speeds...
Handling is another matter of course. ..the car does well but lacks some confidence compared to my old 991T. So perhaps a coilover system like Bilstein may improve it? RAS and PDCC are still options on a S and have never noticed RAS when I drive my wife's car..(she has it and swears by it)
In terms of power none of these cars are gonna be able to match the top EVs so don't go there....the whole point since I can't get a new S or want to pay more then a $40k premium + who knows what by next year with rising MSRPs etc.....I wanted to see if I could get my base to be close to a S if possible.
My wife says buy a used 991.2 turbo S and shut up.......but she already has one!
Thought I share some of my experiences on what I'm trying to build or buy... I don't care about the warranty, or if I track or don't track ....or even plan to resell the car. It's just about debating certain options and directions to take because of the crazy stupid market which is effecting everyone.
Thanks
SO..in terms of power of the base ...
So over the last 2 days I took my 2022 base with sport Chrono, S size wheels and exhaust etc. And took some cars to Mexico for some real world roll on races . I'm sure results will be different with different types of controlled races but on the street...something more real-world.
THe whole point was to see how my base does against these cars on the street because too many people like to regurgitate Dyno readings and have no real comparative knowledge.
All "races" were roll on pulls from around 50mph to 115/ 120 mph.
Cars were 2016 Turbo, 2022 992 GTS, 2019 GT3..all PDK.
We did several pulls on each and switch drivers and got similar results. Nothing scientific all feel on the seat pulls.
First was the GT3 . my base was almost neck and neck all the way until traffic and fear of the police. Did it several times but the gt3 would slowly start to edge me out after 110mph
2nd was against the GTS. Same results. All on sport plus and boost button. The GTS started to barely pull ahead after 100mph. Switch drivers and did the same with the GTS pulling ahead about a half a car.
3 rd race was against the turbo. Forget it. No way..BUT.....i was still behind it.
So I'm sure after 120mph the base will be left behind but it shows that the base has alittle more power then documented. (Interms of street usability)
so in terms of power the base isn't too lacking and feel a tune may help at the higher illegal speeds...
Handling is another matter of course. ..the car does well but lacks some confidence compared to my old 991T. So perhaps a coilover system like Bilstein may improve it? RAS and PDCC are still options on a S and have never noticed RAS when I drive my wife's car..(she has it and swears by it)
In terms of power none of these cars are gonna be able to match the top EVs so don't go there....the whole point since I can't get a new S or want to pay more then a $40k premium + who knows what by next year with rising MSRPs etc.....I wanted to see if I could get my base to be close to a S if possible.
My wife says buy a used 991.2 turbo S and shut up.......but she already has one!
Thought I share some of my experiences on what I'm trying to build or buy... I don't care about the warranty, or if I track or don't track ....or even plan to resell the car. It's just about debating certain options and directions to take because of the crazy stupid market which is effecting everyone.
Thanks