becauseitis

Wondering how many of you all buy insurance for these events. Especially regarding the PCA sponsored events. I have just found the price of over $1,200 for a day to be quite expensive. I know, if you can't pay don't play, but jeez, it's a lot of money for a pretty regulated event. Especially if you are a beginner and have an instructor in the car with you.

I did not buy insurance for my first go, but did feel a little hesitant.

ipse dixit

OpenTrack

rdv

If it’s your daily driver, buy the insurance. Even for an older 911 (like a 997), repairs are expensive so buy the insurance. Don’t assume that an instructor will make it less likely you will have a shunt. Even if you are only driving at 7/10 or 8/10, it’s not difficult to overcook it into a bend or crest a ridge to find a slower car in front of you and end up in a tire wall. You said it yourself, if you can’t pay then don’t play.

TJ74

I have always got track insurance when I do track days. The cost has increased since Covid. Although I know that I am not pushing myself or the car to the limits and the likelihood of something happening is very unlikely, you never know. What I do know is that should something happen and I didn’t get the insurance I would really be pissed with myself.
Having an instructor in the car isn’t necessarily going to prevent an incident from happening. They do not have much time to react and can only verbalize so quickly.
This year I have used Open Track, but have used Lockton & RLI in the past. If I remember correctly Haggerty uses RLI for their track insurance?

jjaisli

As somebody who's been doing HPDE for 10 years, I understand and appreciate what you're asking and it's something I struggled with myself, at various stages over the years. I did a few, sporadic, driving events in the distant past (late 90s and early 2000s) but I've done about 5000+ track miles since 2013. I started with a Scion FRS and I always made sure I was fully insured for each of my track events. The Scion was insured for $28K at the time but even back then it was getting a bit much. I then discovered Lockton offered a multi event policy for a significant discount (no longer available unfortunately). But once you start doing 15~20+ days on track in a given year, the cost REALLY starts to add up.

During my fifth year I started calculating the cost and was beginning to think it simply wasn't worth the money, especially when I added in the ever increasing cost of consumables and travel, etc, and I told myself I wouldn't bother with track insurance the following season. The worst I had suffered until that point was a mild four wheel off that resulted in nothing but a bruised ego and a quick return to the pits. And accidents at HPDE events are generally pretty rare. But at my final event of the season in 2018, on the last day, on what would have been my 2nd to last session, I came around T12 at Thunderbolt and the car started rotating under the bridge and I couldn't correct it (I later found out that a car in front of me had put down fluid). I was able to stop the car from barreling down the pitlane at over 100 mph, that was my immediate concern, but I couldn't get it straightened out and when I hit the wet grass (it had been raining overnight), I spun about 3 times and clouted the tire barrier on the opposite side. WHAM! It was messy.

I was fine (thank you racing seats and 6 point harness and HANS, but I did over $20K in damage to the car--mostly cosmetic. Pretty much every side of the car had some damage. Had it been a normal insurance policy, they would have totaled the car. But track insurance doesn't work like normal car insurance and they paid for the repairs. I haven't had an accident since as I said, it's pretty rare in HPDE. But if you do it long enough, it's probably, eventually going to happen. Even through no fault of your own.

My recommendation would be (a) do some events in the Porsche and make SURE you're covered. Just in case. (B) Decide if this is something you want to do regularly. (C) And if so, buy something cheaper than a new 911, with proper safety equipment and decide what you can afford to write off and just skip the insurance.

rgoldm2

It’s 100/10k in value generally. So your car is prob 120k valued or close to that.

I don’t buy it usually. My local track has massive run offs and chances of damage are extremely slim. Nola motorsports.

aggie57

You'll spend more than $1,200 on tires and brakes. Buy the insurance and take away the worry.

rk-d

I bought track insurance when I went to Nola, but agree - there isn't much there to hit. I'll probably get it whenever I go back because I'm paranoid.

Ironically, I saw someone smash themselves up pretty good hitting the wall on the straightaway.

rgoldm2

I believe they opened that up to make it a run through to avoid that. Maybe a couple years ago

becauseitis

jj, thanks for the sound advice. I guess just suck it up and get some insurance and do a few days. I like the idea of getting a less expensive car and willing to write it off. I can afford to lose 30k; but close to 200k not so much.

It was just so much fun to drive this car on the Track. It's like nothing else i have ever experienced.

drcollie

You've never been in a Formula car then, which will make your 992 feel like an old Checker Taxi. After many, many track events, I eventually just stopped taking my Porsche to the track, it's too expensive a car @ $ 170K to beat on and I've seen too many things happen over the years. And I agree, the insurance is too expensive. Then there are tires and brakes even on a good weekend. I think what works better is to rent a car, you can have just as much fun in a 20 year old Miata. That or go to the Performance events like BMW has in Thermal CA or in Greer SC, and sign up for those. You then get to beat on new cars that are not yours! And you get way more car time. Do the 1-day M school day for example

https://bmwperformancecenter.com/mschool/onedaymschool

Of if you really want to have fun, Betril Roos Formula Fords.....we get a group of guys and go, an absolute blast

https://racenow.com/1-day-road-racing-school/

Cost of the programs is less than wear and tear on your Porsche + Track Insurance, and if you blow up a car, well....you just give it back to them and grab another one.

becauseitis

That actually sounds like the better option. Just rent and drive. Thanks for the links.

AlexCeres

Medical and personal liability. Totaling the car isn’t anywhere close to the top of my worry list. Take the insurance. If you do more than a couple days, OpenTrack offers flat rate annual for the committed track rat.

I do prefer arrive & drive myself. The 2 day advanced BMW M class at Thermal was good. (It says advanced, but it means like “new to track, competent drivers”). it goes up from there including bmw gt4 options. Porsche Birmingham offers all the things as well. PEC in LA and Atlanta offer 90 minute and 4 hour sessions best suited for just getting started or for sampling a few different cars back to back. Driving a 991 gt3rs and then hopping into a 992 gt3 is otherwise a difficult experience to arrange without collector friends.

becauseitis

Now that I have been pretty much moved to do arrive and drive, which is the best bang for the buck? Let you drive at the limits? Maybe i need a new thread here.

drcollie

I've been to a lot of Arrive and Drives. It's pretty hard to beat the BMW one at Thermal CA of the ones I have been to. Because its corporate, they use it to entice you buy a new BMW and its part of their marketing campaign. That means they throw lots of money at it and it shows. They have REAL high-level Instructors, the best I have seen anywhere, most ex-pro race car drivers. They do not ride in the car with you, its all done via 2-way radio. The cars are new and they have plenty of them. It's non-stop driving, I dare say almost too much car time. How many times can you do a slick skidpad? I think I parked the M5 Competition I was in after 60 laps around drifting the car, I was getting dizzy and the Instructor said "Everything OK? You have ten more minutes!" And I'm like "I don't need ten more minutes going in a circle!"

When they take you to the main race track, its lead/follow. But you can't catch the Lead Instructor - he's flying, he's a pro race car driver after all. The Lead / Follow is really more a race and you struggle to keep up and I'm a pretty decent driver. You're in a group of 4 cars in Lead/Follow,and you rotate positions in the fly every four laps so if you are the hot shot, you get right behind the lead car, not stuck behind a slow car in your group. You won't catch the lead car Instructor, if you get really close he will put the radio down and drive with two hands - then he's really gone. The Autocross segments will wear you out, about 50 runs. And they will make you better, even old top 5 autocrossers like me who have been doing it since 1990. They make you work for it, and watch your moves, then will tighten cones specific to your problem areas - they will make you faster in ways you didn't see before.

Do not sign up for the BMW GT4 Race Car unless you are a size large or less and under 200 lb / 6' 1". You won't be able to crawl through the cage and fit in the seat. Don't waste your money (no refunds). The 2-day event I went to in Dec of last year I saw at least 4 cars retire with mechanicals (they had about 50 cars total), and every car out there I think got new tires after the first day. We tore up some rubber.....

The Most FUN you will ever have though, is the Bertil Roos Formula Race Cars. There is nothing like open wheel, center cockpit track time. Everyone who is a car guy should experience that at least once.