Detuning A Carrera S/GTS To Feel Like A Base Carrera Engine
03-17-2022, 07:43 PM
#61
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You'd be surprised. There are some die-hard MT fans here. Personally, I wouldn't do it, but then I also try not to tell people how to spend their money, or drive their cars.
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03-17-2022, 08:09 PM
#62
IMO there are only one or two ways to spec a T, otherwise a base would have been better other than the "T" badge for cool factor or resale.
T is done right when you spec MT, bucket seats, PCCB, RWS (debatable), LW glass, no sunroof. Basically going for the lightest imaginable spec.. Radio delete if you're an ultra purist who plans on doing to real commuting with the car and is purely recreational.
T is done right when you spec MT, bucket seats, PCCB, RWS (debatable), LW glass, no sunroof. Basically going for the lightest imaginable spec.. Radio delete if you're an ultra purist who plans on doing to real commuting with the car and is purely recreational.
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A Nonce (03-18-2022),
westcoastj (03-18-2022)
03-17-2022, 10:14 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
I see a lot of arguments on here about comparing the engine in a GTS vs regular S. My understanding is that the engine and all powertrain components are the same but that the GTS engine builds more power (boost).
Additionally there seems to be just as much love towards the base Carrera engine which actually has smaller turbos than the S/GTS variants: twin *49*-millimeter compressors and a *45*-mm turbine wheels vs *55*-/*48*-mm units in the S/GTS. However I believe that powertrain wise that is all that differs from the S/GTS. Both engines have variable geometry turbochargers, as far as I can research!
Question: If tuned correctly could one get the S/GTS engines to feel very close to to the engine in the Base Carrera?! Food for thought! If (a big if!) such a tune existed it would make the case for buying a base Carrera only one of economics.
STATED ANOTHER WAY: You could transform a Carrera S into a Carrera T (engine wise) and have the option to go back whenever you wanted.
My initial thought is that it *might be possible*, albeit the larger turbos might still add some very minor lag. Even though the turbos are larger there would be less boost to build and the variable geometry could be recalibrated for a different RPM range. If there were differences I think most people would not be able to notice.
If the above is true, would any of you be interested (hypothetical)?
TO CLARIFY: You can find lots of threads here about how the base 911 engine is the one to have (vs. S/GTS) but the base cars are missing key ingredients (RAS, SPASM, PDCC) etc... Could a Carrera S be tuned to be a Carrera T with the option to go back to the normal S variant whenever you want?
NOT SELLING ANYTHING 🙄
Additionally there seems to be just as much love towards the base Carrera engine which actually has smaller turbos than the S/GTS variants: twin *49*-millimeter compressors and a *45*-mm turbine wheels vs *55*-/*48*-mm units in the S/GTS. However I believe that powertrain wise that is all that differs from the S/GTS. Both engines have variable geometry turbochargers, as far as I can research!
Question: If tuned correctly could one get the S/GTS engines to feel very close to to the engine in the Base Carrera?! Food for thought! If (a big if!) such a tune existed it would make the case for buying a base Carrera only one of economics.
STATED ANOTHER WAY: You could transform a Carrera S into a Carrera T (engine wise) and have the option to go back whenever you wanted.
My initial thought is that it *might be possible*, albeit the larger turbos might still add some very minor lag. Even though the turbos are larger there would be less boost to build and the variable geometry could be recalibrated for a different RPM range. If there were differences I think most people would not be able to notice.
If the above is true, would any of you be interested (hypothetical)?
TO CLARIFY: You can find lots of threads here about how the base 911 engine is the one to have (vs. S/GTS) but the base cars are missing key ingredients (RAS, SPASM, PDCC) etc... Could a Carrera S be tuned to be a Carrera T with the option to go back to the normal S variant whenever you want?
NOT SELLING ANYTHING 🙄
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A Nonce (03-18-2022)
03-18-2022, 01:48 PM
#64
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'll meet you halfway - I wouldn't go out of my way to detune my C2S but I did buy an M-Engineering tune purely to turn off Auto-start-stop, the annoying loud cold start and the farts and burbles. So I declined "free power" because I'm happy where it is now and don't want/need any more.
<rant>
BACK TO THE MAIN TOPIC: For everyone else who commented on here pointing out the errors in my thinking: I get it! Paying more for less doesn't make any sense! I agree!
But as others pointed out, Porsche has conditioned us to do this very exact thing! i.e. Paying more $ for less sound deadening?! Paying more $ for the seats removed? I would like to point out that you can pay someone (or DYI it) to do this very exact thing for MUCH less money!
Why I love the way that the company thinks: Porsche charges you for the experience (even if it is non-sensical and just in your head). Ignorance is bliss!
I want to point out a hypothetical: if instead of me posting this and it instead being posted by Porsche. Perhaps in the context of a new 911 model with a different experience: "The 911 Carrera Miata". Parts bin special where its super light weight, slower and with softer bushings (only available in manual). Not only would I line up but others would as well (while also being very much self-aware of the idiots we are). Why would we do that? Because we TRUST Porsche when they say it will be a different but excellent experience. They might get away with charging more than an S!
This is my point: We are not paying for 0-60 times, less sound deadening, feminine curvy rear fenders or a snob badge. WE ARE PAYING MONEY FOR AN EXPERIENCE. Power is only part of of the factors that go into an automotive experience. For others that might be a bigger factor than others. Clearly, for me, it's considerably LESS important but I totally get if for you its much more important. Porsche, unlike other manufacturers (:cough BMW :cough), understand this. Perhaps I thought this forums did too. Or perhaps I might be lost in the sauce....,
</rant>
Last edited by A Nonce; 03-18-2022 at 02:03 PM. Reason: clarity
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AlterZgo (03-19-2022)
03-18-2022, 01:49 PM
#65
First time I've actually had to hit 'unsubscribe' from a thread. Well done, OP.
I can't believe this is still going.
I can't believe this is still going.
03-18-2022, 01:56 PM
#66
Instructor
Thread Starter
I guess it is interesting to me why I seem to think quite differently than seemingly most on this forums. And how in the hell I ended up at this conclusion? Perhaps it's time to call up the Dr. and get that yearly checkup?!
03-19-2022, 03:36 AM
#67
For everyone else who commented on here pointing out the errors in my thinking: I get it! Paying more for less doesn't make any sense! I agree!
But as others pointed out, Porsche has conditioned us to do this very exact thing! i.e. Paying more $ for less sound deadening?! Paying more $ for the seats removed? I would like to point out that you can pay someone (or DYI it) to do this very exact thing for MUCH less money!
But as others pointed out, Porsche has conditioned us to do this very exact thing! i.e. Paying more $ for less sound deadening?! Paying more $ for the seats removed? I would like to point out that you can pay someone (or DYI it) to do this very exact thing for MUCH less money!
03-20-2022, 06:33 AM
#70
I mean I'd be happy to take a base Carrera with manual transmission or a 992 Carrera T (if it were cheaper than a Carrera S) as that would be sufficient for what I wanted and save the money. But no way would I pay for a Carrera S to have it perform like a base.
04-02-2022, 11:39 AM
#72
04-02-2022, 01:46 PM
#73
The only time a lower powered variant of a model would be desirable is when that variant is significantly lighter.
In that situation, the lower powered car can feel more reactive, dynamic and more exciting to drive, despite the lower power.
A detuned C2S is not going to be lighter - just heavier and slower than a base car. The worst of both worlds.
A stripped out, lightweight <3000lb Carrera with base engine level power would be awesome (but definitely not cheap).
In that situation, the lower powered car can feel more reactive, dynamic and more exciting to drive, despite the lower power.
A detuned C2S is not going to be lighter - just heavier and slower than a base car. The worst of both worlds.
A stripped out, lightweight <3000lb Carrera with base engine level power would be awesome (but definitely not cheap).
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dhirm5 (04-02-2022)
04-02-2022, 08:18 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
04-03-2022, 06:50 AM
#75
Three Wheelin'
I could have predicted this thread. This is the culmination of dozens of journalist and hundreds of references on this forum to the "purity" of the Carrera T. It's just a marketing gimmick.
Anecdotally, I drove a Carrera T back to back with a Cayman GTS (the 2.5L) a few years ago at a Porsche sponsored track day event. It was set up as like a 1/4 scale autocross course; specifically to showcase the RR vs MR difference in driving dynamics. Just what the T would excel at, right?
Cayman was hands-down significantly better, pretty much categorically. Can't even complain too much about the sound because the 991.2 never sounded that great either...
So the actual answer to this thread? If you're interested in having a car with a little less power but better driving dynamics?
Get a 718.
Anecdotally, I drove a Carrera T back to back with a Cayman GTS (the 2.5L) a few years ago at a Porsche sponsored track day event. It was set up as like a 1/4 scale autocross course; specifically to showcase the RR vs MR difference in driving dynamics. Just what the T would excel at, right?
Cayman was hands-down significantly better, pretty much categorically. Can't even complain too much about the sound because the 991.2 never sounded that great either...
So the actual answer to this thread? If you're interested in having a car with a little less power but better driving dynamics?
Get a 718.
Last edited by manifold danger; 04-03-2022 at 06:52 AM.
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Go Bruins (04-03-2022)
