992 manual vs 991.2 Turbo S
12-06-2021, 08:07 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
I think the point is that standard units will struggle. Race clutches are not a practical OEM option - they can be hard to modulate in traffic and noisy (granted not every application ends up like that).
People have a hard enough time driving manual transmission nowadays and modern stick shifts are so buttery smooth and easy to drive. Even the RS clutch in my (relatively) lower powered 993 is difficult for some people to drive. I can't imagine Porsche outfitting a true race clutch in street car. You'd have people bringing the car in for service because they're stalling out the car and think it's broken.
That said - there was a rumor that Porsche was going to make a limited run of Sport Classics with the Turbo S engine, but ducktail spoiler, RWD and manual transmission. So maybe they've figure something out? A car like that would be incredible.
People have a hard enough time driving manual transmission nowadays and modern stick shifts are so buttery smooth and easy to drive. Even the RS clutch in my (relatively) lower powered 993 is difficult for some people to drive. I can't imagine Porsche outfitting a true race clutch in street car. You'd have people bringing the car in for service because they're stalling out the car and think it's broken.
That said - there was a rumor that Porsche was going to make a limited run of Sport Classics with the Turbo S engine, but ducktail spoiler, RWD and manual transmission. So maybe they've figure something out? A car like that would be incredible.
Fast forward to present time -- Porsche can do this . They could have done it back then too . I think they didn't want doctors and CEO's crashing on public roads . Thus they make the car go to 60 fast because that's the auto journalist benchmark time but then it tapers off . The modded cars will run all the way up the gear and hurl the driver into the next one without giving up . Its actually mind blowing at first .
They dont have to go this far . I dont even mod my cars anymore . However if a person wants a manual turbo I think it can be done unless emissions keep its to a 7 or 8 spec and then I have no idea . A big engine adjustment might be needed as well. Most guys who changed internals and went higher ended up in. a sequential shifter . That BTW should not be off the table if its a limited edition but it will be .
I was pretty set on it when younger and more capricious . It cost me as much a modern day Turbo S and by the time I was done all those hours and expense wanted me to keep it forever . Pics
from the build
Last edited by yrralis1; 12-06-2021 at 08:12 AM.
12-06-2021, 02:59 PM
#47
RL Community Team
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Yes they can . I have a stage 3 clutch in my 750 Hp 997.1tt . My car was a project car . The cost of a Kevlar clutch was about 2600 plus install . The car comes stock with 480 . We took the stock clutch off at 575 . Anything more than 750 means changing the internals which can be done as well . As I said I don't remember exactly why (it is 14 years later) but it had to do with the Dfi engine .
For PAG to put a MT in a high torque car like the TT/TTS or GT2/RS, it would need to be bullet proof like the PDK is.
12-06-2021, 04:55 PM
#49
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Given the MT is a carry over from the 991 and it's essentially a 7-speed PDK with manual clutch and MECOSA you'd have to wonder if any weakness is clutch related, not gearbox persay. Unless they're worried about the manual shift mechanism being exposed to high-torque shifts? That doesn't scream issue to me on 1st cut but who knows.
12-06-2021, 09:54 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
Doesn't that prove the point that the OEM 7MT in stock form cannot handle the torque output of the TT/TTS? Certainly, not on a reliable, repeatable basis, such as the PDK can in this now famous video from MotorTrend.
For PAG to put a MT in a high torque car like the TT/TTS or GT2/RS, it would need to be bullet proof like the PDK is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o
For PAG to put a MT in a high torque car like the TT/TTS or GT2/RS, it would need to be bullet proof like the PDK is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o
The 2007 Turbo had 480 Hp stock. Thats equal to the OEM clutch in todays 992 GTS . They are having no problem doing yesterdays car right now . The TTS merely means using a stronger clutch and making that one the specific to the higher Hp . The OEM clutch in the 997 Turbo was not the same as the 997S . Even with PDK I haven't researched the 992 but with the Macan the Turbo did get a stronger unit than the S.
12-07-2021, 08:50 AM
#51
Unpopular opinion incoming…
The seven speed manual isn’t very good. Truth be told, most of the manuals in the last days of the 3 pedal transmission aren’t very good.
Whereas the 8 speed PDK is a benchmark setting dual clutch transmission, the 7 speed wouldn’t make anyone’s manual transmission top 10 list.
If you want a three pedal car, it’s nice to have the option. It’s just a shame that it’s not a particularly exceptional transmission.
The seven speed manual isn’t very good. Truth be told, most of the manuals in the last days of the 3 pedal transmission aren’t very good.
Whereas the 8 speed PDK is a benchmark setting dual clutch transmission, the 7 speed wouldn’t make anyone’s manual transmission top 10 list.
If you want a three pedal car, it’s nice to have the option. It’s just a shame that it’s not a particularly exceptional transmission.
12-09-2021, 04:36 PM
#52
I currently have a 2019 GTS (2wd) in PDK. It's my first Porsche and definitely won't be my last. It's not a daily driver, so I can have it be whatever I want it to be, and I've decided I want something different. I either want the fastest (991.2 Turbo S) for that "be all, end all rocket-ship warp your senses" speed, or I want a 992 (S or 4S) in manual transmission for more engagement in a newer package (that's still really fast) that I can build with exactly what I want. I can't get a GT3 because my kids can't ride in the back. In the hopes of stepping outside of my own head, I wanted to reach out to everyone here to get feedback/alternate perspectives.
Great transmission, and I appreciated the ability to go into neutral by pulling both paddles simultaneously which could be unique for the 911 (my Macan doesn't do that, nor other dual clutches I've driven (BMW, McLaren)), but I got bored with PDK.
A forthcoming baby unfortunately forced me out of that (white) 991.1, but it wasn't completely painful because I missed driving a manual.
When our child grew old/big enough for a seat that works in a 911, was time to get back into one and there was no bloody way I would get PDK again.
Would prefer a 992 GTS but didn't want to wait, so picked up this red 991.2 GTS manual this past summer.
Last edited by eonflux; 12-09-2021 at 10:10 PM.
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12-09-2021, 05:27 PM
#53
Racer
After 12 years of having daily drivers with manual transmissions (including a 987.1 Boxster) in San Francisco, figured I'd give PDK a try when I got a 991.1 given all the rave reviews.
Great transmission, and I appreciated the ability to go into neutral by pulling both paddles simultaneously which could be unique for the 911 (my Macan doesn't do that, nor other dual clutches I've driven (BMW, McLaren), but I got bored with PDK.
A forthcoming baby unfortunately forced me out of that (white) 991.1, but it wasn't completely painful because I missed driving a manual.
When our child grew old/big enough for a seat that works in a 911, was time to get back into one and there was no bloody way I would get PDK again.
Would prefer a 992 GTS but didn't want to wait, so picked up this red 991.2 GTS manual this past summer.
Great transmission, and I appreciated the ability to go into neutral by pulling both paddles simultaneously which could be unique for the 911 (my Macan doesn't do that, nor other dual clutches I've driven (BMW, McLaren), but I got bored with PDK.
A forthcoming baby unfortunately forced me out of that (white) 991.1, but it wasn't completely painful because I missed driving a manual.
When our child grew old/big enough for a seat that works in a 911, was time to get back into one and there was no bloody way I would get PDK again.
Would prefer a 992 GTS but didn't want to wait, so picked up this red 991.2 GTS manual this past summer.
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audimotion (12-09-2021)