992 manual vs 991.2 Turbo S
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#32
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That’s the GT4. In the 992 there is a bit of a gap between 2nd and 3rd which you notice on tight track sections but on the road there’s more than enough torque in all gears to deal with that. Frankly I thought we’d moved on from MT/PDK religious wars. Each is good in their own way, all I would say is that when I get back into the MT 992 after spending time in our automatic SUV it’s a good feeling.
#33
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#34
Burning Brakes
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In these days of low inventory, I have been fortunate enough to test drive a few different trims; however none were the 7MT, an option which I’ve made part of my C2S Cab order last June.
As fortune would have it, I spotted a 7MT on the lot yesterday while killing time waiting for servicing on my Macan. I asked my SA about it, who seemed surprised it was there. Perhaps it was a recent trade-in or lease return. Nevertheless, he slapped some plates on it and I was soon enjoying dry roads and uncommonly mild Ontario weather.
As much as I enjoy the intuitive sophistication of PDK, it can’t augment the sense of engagement of a MT.
Going to stick with my choice.![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
As fortune would have it, I spotted a 7MT on the lot yesterday while killing time waiting for servicing on my Macan. I asked my SA about it, who seemed surprised it was there. Perhaps it was a recent trade-in or lease return. Nevertheless, he slapped some plates on it and I was soon enjoying dry roads and uncommonly mild Ontario weather.
As much as I enjoy the intuitive sophistication of PDK, it can’t augment the sense of engagement of a MT.
Going to stick with my choice.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#35
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Why not rhe PDK and when you want the MT just push the button and use the paddles? I drove 3 pedal cars for years and decided to give the left leg a rest so now PDK C2S. No regrets.
Last edited by Glerald; 12-04-2021 at 10:42 PM.
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typehxr1 (12-04-2021)
#36
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The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
I was looking at a 992 Turbo (non-S) but decided to get a 992 S for the manual transmission and the fact that speed is no longer a big deal. With Tesla Model 3s hitting 0-60 in the 3s, acceleration has become commoditized. Plus, with my tuned M3, I find it almost impossible to use all the power on the street. It is downright dangerous to drive w/ traction control off. however, with traction control on, it cuts power constantly. So it kind of defeats the purpose of having all that power. A turbo S overcomes all those shortcomings w/ AWD, but still, how fast does a car need to be? These things are all scary fast and dangerous on the street to give it full throttle for any significant amt of time.
Once you've become jaded by the acceleration, it gets a bit boring. I've never gotten jaded or bored driving any of my manual transmission cars in the past 30+ yrs of owning manual cars.
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#37
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Unpopular opinion incoming…
The seven speed manual isn’t very good. Truth be told, most of the manuals in the last days of the 3 pedal transmission aren’t very good.
Whereas the 8 speed PDK is a benchmark setting dual clutch transmission, the 7 speed wouldn’t make anyone’s manual transmission top 10 list.
If you want a three pedal car, it’s nice to have the option. It’s just a shame that it’s not a particularly exceptional transmission.
The seven speed manual isn’t very good. Truth be told, most of the manuals in the last days of the 3 pedal transmission aren’t very good.
Whereas the 8 speed PDK is a benchmark setting dual clutch transmission, the 7 speed wouldn’t make anyone’s manual transmission top 10 list.
If you want a three pedal car, it’s nice to have the option. It’s just a shame that it’s not a particularly exceptional transmission.
Still, as amazing as the PDK was in the 992 I test drove, I would choose the manual every time simply b/c I like manuals. While the PDK was telepathic in how well it chose gears and the shifts were perfect and the performance was excellent, I know I'd get bored with it as I have every other automatic car I've ever owned. If I were going to track my car, I'd get the PDK. For driving fun on the roads, it's manual for me every time.
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detansinn (12-05-2021)
#38
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I agree with you . I love both the manual and the PDK equally so my view is not an either/or but rather a BOTH . The strength of one reveals thew weakness of the other and visa versa but both are outstanding . my issue is with THAT SPECIFIC. manual in a 7 speed turbo engine . I too drove the very first 2017 manual 7 at my dealership . In a city test drive it was fun as heck . Its when I drove it again later on that I found that at higher speeds gears 4-7 suck . There spacing is just awful. In contrast a 5 speed NA is not even a discussion in a fun car. I's pick a manual and had dome so on every previous 911 .
Honestly, I think it's because it would be pointless. I have a 992 S manual and a stage 1 tuned F80 M3 manual. Even w/ a basic stage 1 tune, through 1st and 2nd gear, you have to be lightning quick w/ the shifts or you will hit the rev limiter. In fact, in 1st gear, I find I have to start initiating my shift around 6K RPM or I will hit the 7.5K rev limiter immediately. This is with a car that makes perhaps 450 wheel hp. I cannot imagine how absolutely insane it would be to drive a stock, manual 992 turbo S.
The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
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AlterZgo (12-05-2021)
#39
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As an owner of a manual 992, I'd have to agree that I was disappointed with the manuaI and that most manual transmissions nowadays just aren't great. They are compromised in many ways and have begun to lose that fully manual feel because manufacturers mess with engine management and clutch delay valves to help smooth the shifts, which has made the experience not nearly as direct as with the older manuals. I never test drove a 992 manual b/c they're virtually impossible to find. I bought it because I had to get a manual. While it's decent, it is not nearly as awesome as everyone makes it out to be. I don't mind the shift gate spacing. I don't think they're too close and the 7th gear lockout until you are in 5th and 6th gears works brilliantly. It allows you to shift like it's a traditional 6 speed manual and only put it into 7th gear when you want to cruise on the freeway. With that said, the shifter **** feels plasticky, like the joystick on a pacman game. The little plastic top cover of my shift **** clicks like it's not fitting snuggly and makes the **** feel a bit cheap. Rowing though the gears does not give me that very positive, notchy, mechanical feeling, but almost feels like you're banging through plastic gates on a driving sim's fake gear box.
Still, as amazing as the PDK was in the 992 I test drove, I would choose the manual every time simply b/c I like manuals. While the PDK was telepathic in how well it chose gears and the shifts were perfect and the performance was excellent, I know I'd get bored with it as I have every other automatic car I've ever owned. If I were going to track my car, I'd get the PDK. For driving fun on the roads, it's manual for me every time.
Still, as amazing as the PDK was in the 992 I test drove, I would choose the manual every time simply b/c I like manuals. While the PDK was telepathic in how well it chose gears and the shifts were perfect and the performance was excellent, I know I'd get bored with it as I have every other automatic car I've ever owned. If I were going to track my car, I'd get the PDK. For driving fun on the roads, it's manual for me every time.
People say the MT isn’t a good match for the wide torque band of the turbo engine but I shift more than the engine requires just because it’s fun and I like it.
Honestly my only real complaint is the cheap plastic on the shift ****. Not sure wtf Porsche was thinking there.
#40
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IMHO, a sports car without a manual is a waste, but then I grew up in a time when all the "serious" enthusiast media and contributors derided ATs and sports cars weren't sport with a AT.
So my 991.2 C4S was ordered with MT. With18k miles, the MT has smoothed out and drives quite nicely. Sure, modern ATs are wonders of quick shift and META for track work.
Leave it that this is a personal decision and there isn't a wrong choice. Enjoy what you like.
So my 991.2 C4S was ordered with MT. With18k miles, the MT has smoothed out and drives quite nicely. Sure, modern ATs are wonders of quick shift and META for track work.
Leave it that this is a personal decision and there isn't a wrong choice. Enjoy what you like.
#41
Burning Brakes
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Honestly, I think it's because it would be pointless. I have a 992 S manual and a stage 1 tuned F80 M3 manual. Even w/ a basic stage 1 tune, through 1st and 2nd gear, you have to be lightning quick w/ the shifts or you will hit the rev limiter. In fact, in 1st gear, I find I have to start initiating my shift around 6K RPM or I will hit the 7.5K rev limiter immediately. This is with a car that makes perhaps 450 wheel hp. I cannot imagine how absolutely insane it would be to drive a stock, manual 992 turbo S.
The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
I was looking at a 992 Turbo (non-S) but decided to get a 992 S for the manual transmission and the fact that speed is no longer a big deal. With Tesla Model 3s hitting 0-60 in the 3s, acceleration has become commoditized. Plus, with my tuned M3, I find it almost impossible to use all the power on the street. It is downright dangerous to drive w/ traction control off. however, with traction control on, it cuts power constantly. So it kind of defeats the purpose of having all that power. A turbo S overcomes all those shortcomings w/ AWD, but still, how fast does a car need to be? These things are all scary fast and dangerous on the street to give it full throttle for any significant amt of time.
Once you've become jaded by the acceleration, it gets a bit boring. I've never gotten jaded or bored driving any of my manual transmission cars in the past 30+ yrs of owning manual cars.
The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
I was looking at a 992 Turbo (non-S) but decided to get a 992 S for the manual transmission and the fact that speed is no longer a big deal. With Tesla Model 3s hitting 0-60 in the 3s, acceleration has become commoditized. Plus, with my tuned M3, I find it almost impossible to use all the power on the street. It is downright dangerous to drive w/ traction control off. however, with traction control on, it cuts power constantly. So it kind of defeats the purpose of having all that power. A turbo S overcomes all those shortcomings w/ AWD, but still, how fast does a car need to be? These things are all scary fast and dangerous on the street to give it full throttle for any significant amt of time.
Once you've become jaded by the acceleration, it gets a bit boring. I've never gotten jaded or bored driving any of my manual transmission cars in the past 30+ yrs of owning manual cars.
That said it was still a traditional 6 speed rather than. 7 . It still is not as efficient as the PDK . Plus the first gen PDK was awful and it still beat the manual .
At that time there were guys who refused to buy any further Turbos . They were manual only guys just as there are PDK only guys .
I find both zealot exclusionists unable to exoruejnce all that Porsche can offer by excluding one . I did drive the manual 7 in both NA (991.1) and PDK (991.2) . While the manual charm of a 7 speed turbo engine lost its appeal the PDK improved greatly over time . It was simply a passing ofbthe baton , It wax gradual and to this day I would get any 718NA in a 6 speed and would wrestle heavily with a Gt3 .
It is for that reason when I saw manual I suggested the 718 . I even picked the Boxster because its the only convertible in the line up I like . He asked for sorting different , a manual, enagagement , and its right there at half the price .
#42
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I currently have a 2019 GTS (2wd) in PDK. It's my first Porsche and definitely won't be my last. It's not a daily driver, so I can have it be whatever I want it to be, and I've decided I want something different. I either want the fastest (991.2 Turbo S) for that "be all, end all rocket-ship warp your senses" speed, or I want a 992 (S or 4S) in manual transmission for more engagement in a newer package (that's still really fast) that I can build with exactly what I want. I can't get a GT3 because my kids can't ride in the back. In the hopes of stepping outside of my own head, I wanted to reach out to everyone here to get feedback/alternate perspectives.
#43
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Honestly, I think it's because it would be pointless. I have a 992 S manual and a stage 1 tuned F80 M3 manual. Even w/ a basic stage 1 tune, through 1st and 2nd gear, you have to be lightning quick w/ the shifts or you will hit the rev limiter. In fact, in 1st gear, I find I have to start initiating my shift around 6K RPM or I will hit the 7.5K rev limiter immediately. This is with a car that makes perhaps 450 wheel hp. I cannot imagine how absolutely insane it would be to drive a stock, manual 992 turbo S.
The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
I was looking at a 992 Turbo (non-S) but decided to get a 992 S for the manual transmission and the fact that speed is no longer a big deal. With Tesla Model 3s hitting 0-60 in the 3s, acceleration has become commoditized. Plus, with my tuned M3, I find it almost impossible to use all the power on the street. It is downright dangerous to drive w/ traction control off. however, with traction control on, it cuts power constantly. So it kind of defeats the purpose of having all that power. A turbo S overcomes all those shortcomings w/ AWD, but still, how fast does a car need to be? These things are all scary fast and dangerous on the street to give it full throttle for any significant amt of time.
Once you've become jaded by the acceleration, it gets a bit boring. I've never gotten jaded or bored driving any of my manual transmission cars in the past 30+ yrs of owning manual cars.
The 992 S feels even faster than my tuned M3 but that is because the 992 has a ton of grip whereas the M3 slides its way through 1st, 2nd and into 3rd. The 992 manual has taller gearing so it doesn't rip to redline quite as quick, but it will still bounce off the rev limiter if I'm not paying full attention when flooring it in 1st gear.
For those who want a Turbo S manual, just get a 992 S and a tune and you will get similar acceleration feel but in a manual car.
I was looking at a 992 Turbo (non-S) but decided to get a 992 S for the manual transmission and the fact that speed is no longer a big deal. With Tesla Model 3s hitting 0-60 in the 3s, acceleration has become commoditized. Plus, with my tuned M3, I find it almost impossible to use all the power on the street. It is downright dangerous to drive w/ traction control off. however, with traction control on, it cuts power constantly. So it kind of defeats the purpose of having all that power. A turbo S overcomes all those shortcomings w/ AWD, but still, how fast does a car need to be? These things are all scary fast and dangerous on the street to give it full throttle for any significant amt of time.
Once you've become jaded by the acceleration, it gets a bit boring. I've never gotten jaded or bored driving any of my manual transmission cars in the past 30+ yrs of owning manual cars.
#44
Burning Brakes
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Yes they can . I have a stage 3 clutch in my 750 Hp 997.1tt . My car was a project car . The cost of a Kevlar clutch was about 2600 plus install . The car comes stock with 480 . We took the stock clutch off at 575 . Anything more than 750 means changing the internals which can be done as well . As I said I don't remember exactly why (it is 14 years later) but it had to do with the Dfi engine .
#45
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Yes they can . I have a stage 3 clutch in my 750 Hp 997.1tt . My car was a project car . The cost of a Kevlar clutch was about 2600 plus install . The car comes stock with 480 . We took the stock clutch off at 575 . Anything more than 750 means changing the internals which can be done as well . As I said I don't remember exactly why (it is 14 years later) but it had to do with the Dfi engine .
People have a hard enough time driving manual transmission nowadays and modern stick shifts are so buttery smooth and easy to drive. Even the RS clutch in my (relatively) lower powered 993 is difficult for some people to drive. I can't imagine Porsche outfitting a true race clutch in street car. You'd have people bringing the car in for service because they're stalling out the car and think it's broken.
That said - there was a rumor that Porsche was going to make a limited run of Sport Classics with the Turbo S engine, but ducktail spoiler, RWD and manual transmission. So maybe they've figure something out? A car like that would be incredible.
Last edited by rk-d; 12-06-2021 at 06:29 AM.