MY22 AMG SL, similar to the 992?
10-29-2021, 02:00 PM
#16
I had a 2021 SL400. It was a lovely car. Quick, well built but no sportscar. The SL has been a GT car for ever. I wouldn't necessarily call the 911 an out an out sports car either now as it is a bit large and heavy nowadays. However it is much more towards the Sportscar end of the GT car spectrum.
10-29-2021, 02:10 PM
#17
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The 911 has gained refinement over the past few decades (softer ride with adaptive dampers, better noise insulation, nicer interior materials and styling), allowing it to approach the refinement of the SL. The SL has lost the ABC suspension this generation, though they are offering optional air suspension with active anti roll actuators (standard on the SL63) and I'm curious how that will ride. Without the optional air suspension (and associated ability to get a soft cruiser ride or firm sporty ride), the R232 doesn't seem very impressive to me compared to the 992 - it's much heavier hurting performance, and doesn't really do anything much better than the 992. Perhaps the interior is a bit nicer, there would be a bit less road noise, suspension might be tuned a touch softer, and the styling is different, but I see nothing stand-out about the SL55 compared to say a base 992. The soft ride of air suspension coupled with decent body control from active anti-roll bars could offer more of a case to choose one over a 992.
I've been a bit underwhelmed by the new SL. It hasn't excited me the way new sports cars have, nor is it quite the replacement for the S class coupe/cab I was hoping for.
I've been a bit underwhelmed by the new SL. It hasn't excited me the way new sports cars have, nor is it quite the replacement for the S class coupe/cab I was hoping for.
Last edited by wizee; 10-29-2021 at 02:12 PM.
10-29-2021, 02:20 PM
#18
The 911 has gained refinement over the past few decades (softer ride with adaptive dampers, better noise insulation, nicer interior materials and styling), allowing it to approach the refinement of the SL. The SL has lost the ABC suspension this generation, though they are offering optional air suspension with active anti roll actuators (standard on the SL63) and I'm curious how that will ride. Without the optional air suspension (and associated ability to get a soft cruiser ride or firm sporty ride), the R232 doesn't seem very impressive to me compared to the 992 - it's much heavier hurting performance, and doesn't really do anything much better than the 992. Perhaps the interior is a bit nicer, there would be a bit less road noise, suspension might be tuned a touch softer, and the styling is different, but I see nothing stand-out about the SL55 compared to say a base 992. The soft ride of air suspension coupled with decent body control from active anti-roll bars could offer more of a case to choose one over a 992.
I've been a bit underwhelmed by the new SL. It hasn't excited me the way new sports cars have, nor is it quite the replacement for the S class coupe/cab I was hoping for.
I've been a bit underwhelmed by the new SL. It hasn't excited me the way new sports cars have, nor is it quite the replacement for the S class coupe/cab I was hoping for.
10-29-2021, 02:20 PM
#19
there are likely a lot of cross shoppers, but none of them would be on rennlist. they're not buying the 911 for it's legendary driving dynamics. they're buying it as a status symbol.
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Freddie Two Bs (10-30-2021)
10-29-2021, 02:36 PM
#20
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Interesting that a Portofino M weights less than a TTS cab at 1664 kg (at least from manufacturer info, although car weight is always subject to debate).
I drove the Roma, which should be similar to the M, and it's more of a sports car than GT. The steering feel is far superior from the Porsche, which is already superb for an electric system. With the current ADM and limited allocations, It's probably cheaper and easier to buy the Porto. I was offered either F8, Roma or Porto at MSRP (standard Ferrari practice), lead time 8-10 months. Odd times.
The 911 weight, size and equipment is moving towards the non-track drivers or vice-versa. The upcoming hybrid TTS is unlikely to be lighter. The NA engines will soon be gone or tamed. The 718 platform is also going electric. It's not unthinkable that Porsche may have a couple of Sports cars (eg GT3) as flagships in the future but the rest far too close to gran tourers. Modern suspensions can make the likes of Taycans feel nimble but can't hide the weight on the track.
My point in this thread is that car magazines announced this SL as an option to the 911. I think up to the 991, mostly the 997, it would make no sense to make such comparison. Thinking ahead, I'm not so sure.
I drove the Roma, which should be similar to the M, and it's more of a sports car than GT. The steering feel is far superior from the Porsche, which is already superb for an electric system. With the current ADM and limited allocations, It's probably cheaper and easier to buy the Porto. I was offered either F8, Roma or Porto at MSRP (standard Ferrari practice), lead time 8-10 months. Odd times.
The 911 weight, size and equipment is moving towards the non-track drivers or vice-versa. The upcoming hybrid TTS is unlikely to be lighter. The NA engines will soon be gone or tamed. The 718 platform is also going electric. It's not unthinkable that Porsche may have a couple of Sports cars (eg GT3) as flagships in the future but the rest far too close to gran tourers. Modern suspensions can make the likes of Taycans feel nimble but can't hide the weight on the track.
My point in this thread is that car magazines announced this SL as an option to the 911. I think up to the 991, mostly the 997, it would make no sense to make such comparison. Thinking ahead, I'm not so sure.
The similarities for the segment of the buyers interested in these two cars (the MB SL and the Portofino) are, to put it bluntly, women.
Basically any front-engined V8 Ferrari (save for the GTC4Lusso) is known and generally perceived as the "wife's car" -- which is really what the prior generations (R231 and earlier) of the MB SL was targeted at, either intentionally or not. But that was the perception and more often than not perception not only becomes reality, but is reality.
A more apt competitor to a 911 Cab would be the Aston Martin Vantage Convertible, which signals more of a masculine vibe than the MB SL ever did. Maybe this R232 version of the SL will change that, but I am not holding my breath.
10-29-2021, 02:57 PM
#21
R230 was pretty masculine to me, especially when you look at models such as the SL55 and 65 Black series. The styling and exhaust was probably the best from the Germans at its time.
The non amg vehicles are basically luxury gt cars. Sleek, elegant, and sporty styling with similar comforts to that of an S class. Can’t say the same for 911 and Panamera. Not sure if there is anything quite like it on the market as the other luxury gt cars are all boats, like the 8 series and cgt.
When I drove the Panamera Turbo, it had more in common with the S class or CLS in terms of comfort and luxury.
The non amg vehicles are basically luxury gt cars. Sleek, elegant, and sporty styling with similar comforts to that of an S class. Can’t say the same for 911 and Panamera. Not sure if there is anything quite like it on the market as the other luxury gt cars are all boats, like the 8 series and cgt.
When I drove the Panamera Turbo, it had more in common with the S class or CLS in terms of comfort and luxury.
I think you missed the connotation of my post.
The similarities for the segment of the buyers interested in these two cars (the MB SL and the Portofino) are, to put it bluntly, women.
Basically any front-engined V8 Ferrari (save for the GTC4Lusso) is known and generally perceived as the "wife's car" -- which is really what the prior generations (R231 and earlier) of the MB SL was targeted at, either intentionally or not. But that was the perception and more often than not perception not only becomes reality, but is reality.
A more apt competitor to a 911 Cab would be the Aston Martin Vantage Convertible, which signals more of a masculine vibe than the MB SL ever did. Maybe this R232 version of the SL will change that, but I am not holding my breath.
The similarities for the segment of the buyers interested in these two cars (the MB SL and the Portofino) are, to put it bluntly, women.
Basically any front-engined V8 Ferrari (save for the GTC4Lusso) is known and generally perceived as the "wife's car" -- which is really what the prior generations (R231 and earlier) of the MB SL was targeted at, either intentionally or not. But that was the perception and more often than not perception not only becomes reality, but is reality.
A more apt competitor to a 911 Cab would be the Aston Martin Vantage Convertible, which signals more of a masculine vibe than the MB SL ever did. Maybe this R232 version of the SL will change that, but I am not holding my breath.
10-29-2021, 03:12 PM
#22
10-29-2021, 04:14 PM
#23
Yep! Those are the ones I grew up with. My dad was serious about getting one back in the 80s, but never did. I'd love to have one if I had the space. I had seriously thought about buying him one for his 70th b-day but I figured he didn't want to deal with the hassle so I passed. They are super cheap and very stout I believe. Old fashioned Mercedes reliability.
10-29-2021, 04:48 PM
#24
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Actually, the Road and Track article I read mentioning air suspension is probably wrong: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...t-replacement/
A guy on MBWorld linked a press release written by Daimler that better describes the suspension: https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...l?oid=51730329
They achieve an effect similar to PDCC with variable roll stiffness through hydraulic interconnection of the dampers. They also use this system for front axle lift. It doesn't look like the system can actively compensate for dive on braking and squat on acceleration the way ABC did though.
One cool thing I saw is that the R232 is the first Mercedes to have a multi-link front suspension. I wonder how that will impact handling at the limit of traction; the non-GT 992s just have MacPherson front suspensions as before. This could help mitigate the impacts of losing ABC's active dive and squat compensation.
A guy on MBWorld linked a press release written by Daimler that better describes the suspension: https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...l?oid=51730329
They achieve an effect similar to PDCC with variable roll stiffness through hydraulic interconnection of the dampers. They also use this system for front axle lift. It doesn't look like the system can actively compensate for dive on braking and squat on acceleration the way ABC did though.
One cool thing I saw is that the R232 is the first Mercedes to have a multi-link front suspension. I wonder how that will impact handling at the limit of traction; the non-GT 992s just have MacPherson front suspensions as before. This could help mitigate the impacts of losing ABC's active dive and squat compensation.
Last edited by wizee; 10-29-2021 at 05:09 PM.
10-29-2021, 05:10 PM
#25
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Interesting that a Portofino M weights less than a TTS cab at 1664 kg (at least from manufacturer info, although car weight is always subject to debate).
I drove the Roma, which should be similar to the M, and it's more of a sports car than GT. The steering feel is far superior from the Porsche, which is already superb for an electric system. With the current ADM and limited allocations, It's probably cheaper and easier to buy the Porto. I was offered either F8, Roma or Porto at MSRP (standard Ferrari practice), lead time 8-10 months. Odd times.
The 911 weight, size and equipment is moving towards the non-track drivers or vice-versa. The upcoming hybrid TTS is unlikely to be lighter. The NA engines will soon be gone or tamed. The 718 platform is also going electric. It's not unthinkable that Porsche may have a couple of Sports cars (eg GT3) as flagships in the future but the rest far too close to gran tourers. Modern suspensions can make the likes of Taycans feel nimble but can't hide the weight on the track.
My point in this thread is that car magazines announced this SL as an option to the 911. I think up to the 991, mostly the 997, it would make no sense to make such comparison. Thinking ahead, I'm not so sure.
I drove the Roma, which should be similar to the M, and it's more of a sports car than GT. The steering feel is far superior from the Porsche, which is already superb for an electric system. With the current ADM and limited allocations, It's probably cheaper and easier to buy the Porto. I was offered either F8, Roma or Porto at MSRP (standard Ferrari practice), lead time 8-10 months. Odd times.
The 911 weight, size and equipment is moving towards the non-track drivers or vice-versa. The upcoming hybrid TTS is unlikely to be lighter. The NA engines will soon be gone or tamed. The 718 platform is also going electric. It's not unthinkable that Porsche may have a couple of Sports cars (eg GT3) as flagships in the future but the rest far too close to gran tourers. Modern suspensions can make the likes of Taycans feel nimble but can't hide the weight on the track.
My point in this thread is that car magazines announced this SL as an option to the 911. I think up to the 991, mostly the 997, it would make no sense to make such comparison. Thinking ahead, I'm not so sure.
10-29-2021, 05:33 PM
#26
Personally think the front end of the SL is very attractive. The long hood and front lights/grill are very tasteful. The two things that I don't like are the rear end slope + taillights combo, as well as the center infotainment touchscreen. If its illegal and unsafe to use a phone during driving, stop putting stupid touchscreens in the center. *facepalm*.
10-29-2021, 05:43 PM
#27
Personally think the front end of the SL is very attractive. The long hood and front lights/grill are very tasteful. The two things that I don't like are the rear end slope + taillights combo, as well as the center infotainment touchscreen. If its illegal and unsafe to use a phone during driving, stop putting stupid touchscreens in the center. *facepalm*.
10-29-2021, 05:45 PM
#28
MBA couldn't drive out of a paper bag and gets sold before the bank takes what was never Mr. Big Shot's in the first place.
Last edited by phaser; 10-29-2021 at 06:26 PM.
10-31-2021, 02:40 PM
#29
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I love the video of the new SL and would love to get one for my wife, but I don't have a wife so I guess I just saved close to $200k. Yay!
Seriously though, beautiful cars, I've always been drawn to them starting back in 1986 when I worked for Anton Mercedes in Rockville MD for a year. My boss had a blue with cream colored leather interior 560SL and it was dreamy.
Seriously though, beautiful cars, I've always been drawn to them starting back in 1986 when I worked for Anton Mercedes in Rockville MD for a year. My boss had a blue with cream colored leather interior 560SL and it was dreamy.
11-01-2021, 07:28 PM
#30
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I like the idea of the new SL...Merc was serious about upping the performance chops by bringing the SL closer to its original roots, i.e. W198, with only an "AMG" badge. But I still see this car as being more of Jag F-Type kind of competitor. I am sure the 911 is a better car overall. It would be nice to have it in addition to the 911
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Master Deep (11-02-2021)