Please help. What to do. Regret!
10-24-2021, 01:15 AM
#46
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
To the OP. Get a Boxster 987.2 manual. Best porsche I had for the money.
Or suck it up the loss, but it's a bad time for that.
Don't feel bad. I traded a low mileage 997.2 into a 6 series because the ADM on the 991S aggravated me (!). Talk about regret... I traded it less than 2 years later into a 991S, 5% off MSRP, beemer near 50% loss.
Most of middle class car aficionados will do that and feel the pain. Some are doing so well that it doesn't bother them, but it still happens. In the end, the house always wins, but it doesn't mean you can't have fun.
Or suck it up the loss, but it's a bad time for that.
Don't feel bad. I traded a low mileage 997.2 into a 6 series because the ADM on the 991S aggravated me (!). Talk about regret... I traded it less than 2 years later into a 991S, 5% off MSRP, beemer near 50% loss.
Most of middle class car aficionados will do that and feel the pain. Some are doing so well that it doesn't bother them, but it still happens. In the end, the house always wins, but it doesn't mean you can't have fun.
10-24-2021, 01:17 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
The claims around 911 income are ridiculous, but it’s the first time I’ve heard $400k for the Macan. That’s just comically absurd. It amazes me that intelligent people give any credence to this kind of “data” hogwash.
The following users liked this post:
siberian (10-24-2021)
10-24-2021, 01:39 PM
#48
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Amen
siberian
siberian
10-24-2021, 01:39 PM
#49
Got to drive a Taycan. It drove more like a Porsche than an electric car. But I'd still take a 911 any day as a sports car. If you're able to remotely swing it, I'd sell it, get into a 992. The dealer likely needs inventory and would be willing to give you top dollar since you'll be waiting a bit to get into a 992 and they get a car now.
Regarding the finance conversation, we're all going to the same place and going to die at some point. Enjoy your life. Don't hurt others in the process. What you do in between there is up to you. Some of us (myself included) spend a disproportionate amount of their income or savings to make a dream happen. We probably won't be living in a $1mm house with $10mm in savings and a $500k income anytime soon, but that's ok. I know plenty of people with considerably less that are considerably happier people. Also while your 911 is unlikely to go up in value, it's unlikely to depreciate down to $0, so you at least have an asset that is worth something, unlike that vacation that so many Americans take every year. Oh and yes, I understand experiences are important, but my 911 is an experience every time I drive it.
Regarding the finance conversation, we're all going to the same place and going to die at some point. Enjoy your life. Don't hurt others in the process. What you do in between there is up to you. Some of us (myself included) spend a disproportionate amount of their income or savings to make a dream happen. We probably won't be living in a $1mm house with $10mm in savings and a $500k income anytime soon, but that's ok. I know plenty of people with considerably less that are considerably happier people. Also while your 911 is unlikely to go up in value, it's unlikely to depreciate down to $0, so you at least have an asset that is worth something, unlike that vacation that so many Americans take every year. Oh and yes, I understand experiences are important, but my 911 is an experience every time I drive it.
10-24-2021, 01:57 PM
#50
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The talk of income levels around the Porsche models is just marketing. Take the Macan example, with the most common options, the car comes in less than a well spec’d Ford F-150. Most people driving those F-150s aren’t making $400k year.
“Cash” buyers aren’t an indication of anything. In fact, most cash buyers are less financially sophisticated and lower income than folks using super cheap credit and private banking.
The truth is that the 911 ownership community has incredibly diverse demographics, much more so than other marques like Ferrari or Lamborghini. Look at the builds that people post here — cars disciplined to a specific budget and cars that don’t really have a budget at all. If you have a white collar job, 911 ownership is accessible to a lot of people and some people make some sacrifices to do so. It is an attainable dream car for the person willing to do some saving OR willing to pay some ridiculous lease payment. This isn’t an exclusive experience.
There are people planning to keep their cars 10 years, driving it on the weekends only. There are people who drive it as their only car. There are people that drive theirs everywhere, because it’s just a car to them. Heck, for some folks on RennList, the 911 is the “cheap” car in the garage(s).
And yes, some people view it as a status symbol. Telling people the range of incomes that buy the car and letting them know that they can be in that club is part of the marketing machine.
Me? I always wanted one of my own when I was a kid. I drive it everywhere, because I love it. Depreciation isn’t a concern for me. I bought it for the experience could care less what anyone thinks about. Around my neck of the woods, people just presume that you’re a dentist. 😜 I don’t care what they think. I’m just glad that I finally got around to buying one of my own.
“Cash” buyers aren’t an indication of anything. In fact, most cash buyers are less financially sophisticated and lower income than folks using super cheap credit and private banking.
The truth is that the 911 ownership community has incredibly diverse demographics, much more so than other marques like Ferrari or Lamborghini. Look at the builds that people post here — cars disciplined to a specific budget and cars that don’t really have a budget at all. If you have a white collar job, 911 ownership is accessible to a lot of people and some people make some sacrifices to do so. It is an attainable dream car for the person willing to do some saving OR willing to pay some ridiculous lease payment. This isn’t an exclusive experience.
There are people planning to keep their cars 10 years, driving it on the weekends only. There are people who drive it as their only car. There are people that drive theirs everywhere, because it’s just a car to them. Heck, for some folks on RennList, the 911 is the “cheap” car in the garage(s).
And yes, some people view it as a status symbol. Telling people the range of incomes that buy the car and letting them know that they can be in that club is part of the marketing machine.
Me? I always wanted one of my own when I was a kid. I drive it everywhere, because I love it. Depreciation isn’t a concern for me. I bought it for the experience could care less what anyone thinks about. Around my neck of the woods, people just presume that you’re a dentist. 😜 I don’t care what they think. I’m just glad that I finally got around to buying one of my own.
Last edited by detansinn; 10-24-2021 at 02:11 PM.
10-25-2021, 04:52 AM
#51
Sending a lot of love to you for your honesty! It's a great stigma to have attached to us, but I'm in the same boat as you and I'm not selling my RRS V8 TT!
10-25-2021, 04:55 AM
#52
The average Joe who aspires to be a Porsche owner because he loves the car (not talking about the brand), knows the minimum when it comes to investments.
If you really believe this, you are not living in the real world, sorry.
10-26-2021, 02:26 AM
#53
For each income level that you achieve in life, if you are a car guy, you have an aspirational car. Some dudes that have a decent year may say, "I had a good bonus this year, I'm going to spoil myself and get a Z or a Corvette" etc etc. I think all car guys will do that and get a ton of enjoyment based on the spoil myself extra cash based on some affordable amount that won't break them. For me, I had a killer year and it was only then that I said that I'll spoil myself and get a 911 but the spoil fund was on a relative basis the same %. I think this is why that stat tends to hang together. These guys are probably saying, "I banked $600k this year, I'll splurge on a $120k-$135k car as a reward to myself for killing it." But guys making this amount of bank are going to be naturally hard wired to never spend beyond their means so likely won't ever over spend. Prior to this, if I had a good year, I was thinking that I'd get a Supra or something like that but that changed and it got bumped up to a 911 when the amount of spoil myself cash went much higher......then it was "let's waive that 911 in" LOL. Truthfully, what really did it was when I test drove the 911.......it was a life changing experience. It's really hard to describe what the 911 feels like until you drive it....really tough to explain it to people that just drive cars for transportation.
Rationale in 2020 and 2021:
This spoil myself money can either be spent in one of two ways in search of enjoyable experiences; take the killer vacation, or get something like a 911. For me it was, I had a killer year, COVID hit so no chance of a killer vacation anytime soon, get the 911 and cruise around town having a mini vacation everytime I step into that car. I really mean that......no other car even comes close.....I actually look forward to turning on that ignition, hearing the engine and then pulling out of my driveway. All mundane errands is helped by the 911.
So at the end of the day, get your 911 back, life goes by fast and when you get old and you can't drive, you'll remember that feeling you had when you were younger driving that car with that loud exhaust and how you felt, instead of that whiny Taycan electric motor!
Rationale in 2020 and 2021:
This spoil myself money can either be spent in one of two ways in search of enjoyable experiences; take the killer vacation, or get something like a 911. For me it was, I had a killer year, COVID hit so no chance of a killer vacation anytime soon, get the 911 and cruise around town having a mini vacation everytime I step into that car. I really mean that......no other car even comes close.....I actually look forward to turning on that ignition, hearing the engine and then pulling out of my driveway. All mundane errands is helped by the 911.
So at the end of the day, get your 911 back, life goes by fast and when you get old and you can't drive, you'll remember that feeling you had when you were younger driving that car with that loud exhaust and how you felt, instead of that whiny Taycan electric motor!
The following 2 users liked this post by Autobacs:
Mercuriell (10-26-2021),
Pcar81 (10-27-2021)
The following users liked this post:
dhirm5 (10-28-2021)
10-26-2021, 02:44 PM
#55
Porsche SE Automibile Holding owns VW Group based on votes actually, not the other way around. I think de jure Porsche runs the show, not VW. So Porsche if working Porsche IPO perhaps..
So anyway, it would make sense for Porsche to be spun off separately, only after they have an EV line up because this is what's wanted by those chasing another Tesla performance (haha, not gonna happen, Elon wont be promoting Porsche although he could send it to space just to make fun of it). And as investor, I probably would not buy Porsche the car company just like I am staying away from Volvo IPO. I get what Tesla is trying to do, to mass market their electrics (Hertz makes sense, everyone gonna test drive Teslas now and Pay for it also).
This 600k average porsche owner income is pretty sweet but I bet averages out those who are worth millions+. Having said that, I always applied a rule of thumb that your car shall not be worth more than half your annual income (but can be less of course). Always found it to make sense through life.
My biggest question is if Taycan will depreciate more or less as EV. It looks pretty damn good, and EV platform makes it supposedly fairly reliable, but range is poor (so it is on a Lambo on petrol tank, to be fair). Panameras hold value pretty well, and I think Taycan might do better. Still low volume car (20000 made?) helps too. I think design is VERY good, like that of 911. Porsche sort of nailed the 4 door sedan design using great infrastructure. ONly problem of Taycan really is poor packaging. It is the size of an SUV with interior less than Model 3.
So anyway, it would make sense for Porsche to be spun off separately, only after they have an EV line up because this is what's wanted by those chasing another Tesla performance (haha, not gonna happen, Elon wont be promoting Porsche although he could send it to space just to make fun of it). And as investor, I probably would not buy Porsche the car company just like I am staying away from Volvo IPO. I get what Tesla is trying to do, to mass market their electrics (Hertz makes sense, everyone gonna test drive Teslas now and Pay for it also).
This 600k average porsche owner income is pretty sweet but I bet averages out those who are worth millions+. Having said that, I always applied a rule of thumb that your car shall not be worth more than half your annual income (but can be less of course). Always found it to make sense through life.
My biggest question is if Taycan will depreciate more or less as EV. It looks pretty damn good, and EV platform makes it supposedly fairly reliable, but range is poor (so it is on a Lambo on petrol tank, to be fair). Panameras hold value pretty well, and I think Taycan might do better. Still low volume car (20000 made?) helps too. I think design is VERY good, like that of 911. Porsche sort of nailed the 4 door sedan design using great infrastructure. ONly problem of Taycan really is poor packaging. It is the size of an SUV with interior less than Model 3.
Last edited by pascalemod; 10-26-2021 at 02:49 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Autobacs (10-26-2021)
10-26-2021, 08:10 PM
#57
10-28-2021, 12:45 PM
#58
Advanced
See, people falling for the electric mobile novelty.
Look back at the reasons WHY you chose a Porsche, err THE 911. Remember that NONE of these other cars (yet) convey them enough.
Look back at the reasons WHY you chose a Porsche, err THE 911. Remember that NONE of these other cars (yet) convey them enough.
10-28-2021, 03:37 PM
#59
Neither am I but wealth is abstract, unless you're willing to sell the house you live in or the vase from Aunt Harriet dating back to the 1800s, wealth is an appraisal. Until you find a buyer it's what it is, a number. Cash is what buys a Porsche not what your house is estimated to be worth or whatever unless you borrow against it.
siberian
siberian
10-28-2021, 04:27 PM
#60
Neither am I but wealth is abstract, unless you're willing to sell the house you live in or the vase from Aunt Harriet dating back to the 1800s, wealth is an appraisal. Until you find a buyer it's what it is, a number. Cash is what buys a Porsche not what your house is estimated to be worth or whatever unless you borrow against it.
siberian
siberian
