right，engine & suspension tune up is lost. but the saved $$ is enough to spec PCCB, tempted to switch from gts order to just a c2s with sport pkg, ras pccb & a few other bit, all in around 140k build. and most importantly line is much shorter for a c2s

 

and no access to spasm/ras.

If possible I'd just spec a base the way I do with the aforementioned c2s build

 

And this is the beauty of Porsche.

Just like Burger King ... you can have it your way.

 

I did it for the manual. I am pretty darn sure I would have gone base if it offered a manual. Rumor has it the base engine is more responsive around town as well (not sure if true).

 

Have you not looked at pricing? The GTS is no longer cheaper in sticker price compared to similarly optioned S. There's ~$10K premium.

How is not a change in the formula? Previously, you could option an S to be the equivalent of a GTS (except centerlocks). That is no longer the case.

GTS has hardware differences that you cannot get on an S.

• Helper spring (biggest in my mind)
• Turbo brakes
• Rear seat delete option

You don't acknowledge that's fundamentally a different formula? Even if you personally don't value those changes much, it's objectively different than previous GTS models.

 

And it's not the 718 that changed expectations. It's every single GTS model. GTS used to mean S engine with extra boost, and that recently ​​changed in Cayenne, Panamera, Macan, and 718.

Porsche did the same with the 911 in that you cannot option an S to be equivalent. They just did it with other hardware rather than engine (as detailed above).

 

And the 30hp boost. But I think the point is, that's the "formula" they have always done on the 911. Some bits and pieces (performance and alcantera along with center locks) that make the car more performance orientated - but not necessarily that different. I think that's what Nick Murray was bitching about - the other models get serious attention with their GTS package. And no, I don't know what Porsche could have done different - maybe a de-tuned motor from the turbo?

 

My point is that is not the same formula. In the past they were bits and pieces that were options on an S. You could truly option an S to be a GTS, even the power kits (except CL wheels). Info released in the last week shows there are now more significant mechanical changes that cannot be optioned on an S.

Beyond what I've mentioned, S-PASM on the GTS is also different than S-PASM on an S. 40% stiffer in front, 20% in rear. And remember it was significant news when 991.2 GT3 added helper springs.

Just did price comparison, and GTS MSRP is $12K more than comparably equipped S (vs saving a few thousand dollars in the past).

Different formula, different pricing.

 

These two points are just wrong. Curious to know how you were configuring your GTS? Have a look at this, pretty sure I captured everything that can be added to the C2S that is included in the GTS: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNQPH6U6

While there may be things you don't want that the GTS package includes, the above build shows ~$6k delta at a bare minimum. I think very few would spec a GTS with the standard C2S wheels, so now you're talking an additional ~$3100 for the Spyder wheels in Satin Black, reducing that delta even more. Throw in the both the aesthetic (interior trim, race-tex seats) and mechanical differences that one cannot get with a C2S, its a couple g's more for the GTS. Is that important to you? Perhaps not... but there are clear differences at a nominal increase in price.

 

Math can be so hard for some people.

 

Depends on what you consider the formula. To me, it is a bunch of options thrown in, some modest performance improvements, and an increase in price. That's what it always has been (on the 911) - even if those options were avail on the S. I don't think "the formula" is different just cause you can't get some of those on the S now. But you may consider that a formula change - which is fine. My point is that on the other cars in Porsche's line up, the GTS is a more dramatic upgrade.

The price delta is closer to $12K. Remove sports design front and rear (which very few people get the rear) and the black badging, add in leather and ventilated seats (didn't want, but sooo happy I got) and you are there. The point is, you get stuff like bigger turbos, better brakes, and different suspension, plus a whole lot of crap that you may or may not want (seriously, black wheels are kind of yesterday and center locks are scary (but seriously cool). The mistake I feel most people make is they add all those things in on the S and then leave out the ventilated seats and leather and say "how could you not take the GTS?". Well it is pretty simple - a lot of what comes with the GTS is stuff the people simply would not option on their S. That leaves one with some sort of increase over the S - be it $1 or $12K, and you get to decide if the changes to the GTS are worth it to you. But as noted, for me, it would have been $12K and seriously, after seeing the sports design rear end of the 992 in person.... it is not a car for me.... (and as noted, I daily the thing in Chicago and don't go to the track - give me the noise insulation, less turbo lag, chrome badges, leather with ventilated seats and non-black non-center lock wheels - thank you).

 

No, it isn’t. Lol. The price delta of a C2S when optioned as close to a GTS as possible is less than $3k, which is what I showed with the build and what I thought the OP was talking about. However, after rereading the posts, I’m really not sure what the OP was trying to convey. Leather and ventilated seats are options that increase the price on both models, not sure why those were brought into the discussion.

I know the GTS isn’t the model for you, but as you continue to lead the crusade against it, I can’t help but think you already know it’s going to be better than a C2S. Edit: have any of the actual reviews talked about increased turbo lag? I have only read a couple and didn’t see anything. Might be time to stop pushing the false narrative.

All kidding aside, the 992 GTS is very attractive package if the included options are of interest. The bespoke items are icing on the cake.

 

One difference on the 992 that has not been mentioned is that it gets the big brakes of the 911 Turbo, for the first time in GTS history. Think about that. Why do you suppose Porsche upsized the brakes this time? I won't say what I'm thinking, but will say I'm an engineer.

 

Say what you think……

 

Parts bin and considering that the rear also gets the Turbo helper springs, probably one less unique assembly to worry about.