Gentian21

I have a new C2S manual and I'm trying to determine what the Sport setting gives you that is unobtainable in the Normal mode other than the rev match feature. Going from Normal to Sport does not seem to firm up the dampers at all-- only Sport Plus seems to stiffen things up. Sport exhaust is available in Normal through the toggle switch on the dashboard. Auto Start/Stop can be defeated through the PCM (although the Sport mode is a quicker way to get there). I don't discern any difference in throttle sensitivity in Sport. With a PDK, Sport mode significantly alters the shift points and makes a big difference in the way the car responds, but obviously, that's irrelevant in the manual. So-- is there any aspect of Sport in a manual car (other than rev matching) that isn't available in the Normal mode?

patentguy

Rev matching in Sport, not in Normal.

aggie57

It does the same changes in a manual as in a PDK sans the different PDK shift profiles. Best way to see this is to gently accelerate with a steady throttle opening, starting around 2500-3000 is best, and switch between modes. You should feel a difference in the amount of acceleration for the same gas throttle pedal pressure. It's more obvious between sport and sport+ than between normal and sport but it's there and the only way to select it is with the drive mode.

You can also try running in the different modes and switch the PSM off completely (hold PSM button down for a couple of seconds). Then try downshifting. The system that holds revs up when you release the throttle behaves more aggressively in sport and sport+ than in normal, i.e. it holds the revs up longer. Same deal, only done via drive mode.

Last example, at idle switching between the modes changes the idle speed. This is in conjunction with a different engine cooling mode - the car is set to run cooler in sport/sport+ than in normal even though the water temp gauge doesn't show it.

In summary, the differences are there but not immediately obvious, and in fact most are not independently selectable. Even the manual doesn't list them all in the section about drive modes.

3rdpedal

I feel like rev matching is almost there. It should match for upshifts, but not for downshifts, to allow you gain more seamless shifts through acceleration while still allowing you to control deceleration better through downshifting. Isn't that the entire reason for turning the PSM off, to disable the rev matching to give you traditional manual downshift speed control, yet, in doing so, you lose the acceleration benefit of rev matching that ideally you would still want.

Hormazd Dalal

Below from the manual. In real life the only difference for me is farting exhaust in Sport. I am normally driving pretty hard when using S+ so haven't noticed the increased throttle response. Will pay more attention now that I have read Aggie's post. But I think it might be the placebo effect of the exhaust note.

Gentian21

Thanks for the input, especially to Aggie for the thorough explanation. It seems as though the major feature of Sports Chrono for the manual is the rev matching, since the alteration of the throttle mapping is probably too subtle to appreciate-- and that goes for the idle speed changes and the negligible changes to coolant temperature. I suppose for those who track their cars the stopwatch and all its features are useful, but for the road, it's a pretty useless device. The bottom line seems to be that Sport Chrono is hugely beneficial in a PDK, and a marginal enhancement for a manual. In any case, it's free for a manual.

3rdpedal

I have a 997.1 with Sport Chrono Plus in it. I turn it on every time I turn on the ignition. As to the Sport Chrono now, I think most of us would option it, for one feature or another, whether in a PDK or manual due to changes at least in the Sport Plus mode, though I agree that the Sport mode doesn't seem to be as noticeable. As to the free idea. A lot of people say the PDK is now a free option and you don't pay extra like you used to. The way I look at it is that the Sport Chrono is included with the manual (needed for rev matching) and that the PDK without Sport Chrono is the same price as the manual. If you opt for PDK, you should still add Sport Chrono, at which point the addition of the Sport Chrono is essentially the same as paying for the PDK, the way that the automatic transmission used to be an upcharge.

Of course, the flip side is that the manual transmission is $17,000 more than the PDK since you cannot buy the base Carrera in a manual.

TheStanman

Yes Sport is more significant with PDK, but I don't think the increased idle, better cabin sound through sound symposer, throttle sensitivity, and farty exhaust are negligible. Increased RPMs change the exhaust sound at idle. I do find myself using S+ to get rid of the exhaust burbles unless I'm in a flatulent mood.

aggie57

I'd just like a button to switch rev-matching off. They do it in other models, it's not as if it's a hard thing to add.

3rdpedal

I believe the only way to achieve that is to turn of the PSM, and set other settings as you want them, and to save those into Individual mode.

aggie57

My understanding too but then you loose all the stability programs. Personally in a 450hp rear engine car, not something I'd recommend. Especially with mile wide rubber masking what real world physics are actually in play.

Hormazd Dalal

Or set Individual mode. Normal, Sport Exhaust and Sport Shocks.

InTgr8r

I'm not following you're thinking at all.
Rev matching on downshifts is the most important part of this feature and keeps the car balanced when downshifting.
With PSM off you should be using heal & toe to accomplish this.
Downshifting should never be used to decelerate the car, that is what brakes are for.

Hormazd Dalal

Except the pedals are really not set up for heal and toe. In order to blip the throttle, you would have to have slammed the brake pedal to get it to where you can slide your heal/side of foot to the throttle. But manual rev matching on a down shift is great fun to nail. As for matching on an up shift, don't understand that.