Manual Transmission
12-06-2020, 01:56 PM
#31
yes. I would be that guy. I’m ok with that. I don’t pretend to be a race car driver. I have fun on the track, but would likely be smoked by a good driver in a civic. Again, I’m ok with that. I just want to have fun. And I find manual fun. I may lose a few seconds at tremblant, but 99% of the time I find the driving experience more engaging with a manual.
By the way, I also suspect most people think they are better track drivers than they really are.
Right on. I'm a competitive person but on track it's only with myself and my previous times. As long as I keep improving, that's what matters. And the Miatas can keep passing me
12-06-2020, 04:11 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
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12-06-2020, 04:17 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
12-06-2020, 04:24 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
My perspective is ski racing. Unless your last name is Pinturault, Vhlova, Schiffrin or Kristofferson, you might want to dial down the dismissive attitude towards other skiers. Maybe just compare yourself against yourself.
12-07-2020, 02:14 PM
#36
Anyone who has a modern sports car and at least takes it to the track, regardless of skill level, gets big recognition for recognizing & taking advantage of the best place to experience their cars full capabilities vs driving irresponsibly on the street.
I also totally agree on the comments that track days are not racing and the goal is constant improvement. My frustration is usually people "over estimating" their abilities or speed because fancy new sports car = faster than everyone else. Some track groups have required lap times for their advanced session which is ideal and keeps amateurs who think they are fast out. However, some of the track organizations rely on self selection and thus we often end up with McClarens / GT3s / Vipers in the fast group and end who end up being "lap traffic" very quickly. Some seem to realize quickly that they don't belong and move to a beginner group after the first session of the day while others stick around and occasionally crash driving beyond their limits trying to keep up. I speak from personal experience having introduced my first E46 M3 to a tire wall at the track many years ago driving beyond my skill level.
I also totally agree on the comments that track days are not racing and the goal is constant improvement. My frustration is usually people "over estimating" their abilities or speed because fancy new sports car = faster than everyone else. Some track groups have required lap times for their advanced session which is ideal and keeps amateurs who think they are fast out. However, some of the track organizations rely on self selection and thus we often end up with McClarens / GT3s / Vipers in the fast group and end who end up being "lap traffic" very quickly. Some seem to realize quickly that they don't belong and move to a beginner group after the first session of the day while others stick around and occasionally crash driving beyond their limits trying to keep up. I speak from personal experience having introduced my first E46 M3 to a tire wall at the track many years ago driving beyond my skill level.
12-07-2020, 04:49 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Anyone who has a modern sports car and at least takes it to the track, regardless of skill level, gets big recognition for recognizing & taking advantage of the best place to experience their cars full capabilities vs driving irresponsibly on the street.
I also totally agree on the comments that track days are not racing and the goal is constant improvement. My frustration is usually people "over estimating" their abilities or speed because fancy new sports car = faster than everyone else. Some track groups have required lap times for their advanced session which is ideal and keeps amateurs who think they are fast out. However, some of the track organizations rely on self selection and thus we often end up with McClarens / GT3s / Vipers in the fast group and end who end up being "lap traffic" very quickly. Some seem to realize quickly that they don't belong and move to a beginner group after the first session of the day while others stick around and occasionally crash driving beyond their limits trying to keep up. I speak from personal experience having introduced my first E46 M3 to a tire wall at the track many years ago driving beyond my skill level.
I also totally agree on the comments that track days are not racing and the goal is constant improvement. My frustration is usually people "over estimating" their abilities or speed because fancy new sports car = faster than everyone else. Some track groups have required lap times for their advanced session which is ideal and keeps amateurs who think they are fast out. However, some of the track organizations rely on self selection and thus we often end up with McClarens / GT3s / Vipers in the fast group and end who end up being "lap traffic" very quickly. Some seem to realize quickly that they don't belong and move to a beginner group after the first session of the day while others stick around and occasionally crash driving beyond their limits trying to keep up. I speak from personal experience having introduced my first E46 M3 to a tire wall at the track many years ago driving beyond my skill level.
12-08-2020, 04:49 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I own other cars, and Porsches, to drive when I want quiet competence. When I drive my 992S I want thrills. PDK gets boring after you accelerate to top speed. Then it upshifts to get better gas mileage and makes the car feel like it lost half of its torque. I like thinking about what gear I should be in and when to shift up and down. I like how my left leg and right hand connect my brain directly to the engine and its vibrations and how I must concentrate to get heel and toe shifts perfect. Not everyone feels that way and I am all right with that. In ten years when I sell it, it should net me a premium over PDK cars because of its rarity and the fact that it will offer more involvement. Its not a perfect comparison, but used Ferraris with manual transmissions seem to sell for double what their automatic transmission versions sell for on BaT. I like that too.
12-09-2020, 01:35 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
After just driving my 2021 992 manual, I can easily and confidently say that any and all gripes I previously had with my manual 991.1 and 991.2 cars are completely gone. I had a 2012 991 Carrera, 2013 991 Carrera S, 2018 991.2 Carrera 4S and 2019 991.2 Carrera GTS. All 7 speeds.
My previous gripes with the .1 (vague shifter, two many gears packed into a tight space, easy to grab the wrong gear, always worried I might downshift from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, etc) and 991.2 much better, (but still a concern about grabbing the wrong gear, missing shifts, etc). The 2012 and 2013 both had an issue that needed to be fixed. Initially cars sometimes didn't start from an error (throttle position sensor) and Porsche needed to design and install a shim of some type to fix this. The 2013, I got so frustrated that I swapped out the shifter.
I initially considered an OEM GT4 shifter, and after quite a bit of research, ultimately went with a Numeric Racing shifter. Let me put it this way, if you own a 991.1 manual, this is THE UPGRADE I would do before anything else. I would always budget for a Numeric Racing shifter (about $600 plus 2 hour-ish install) when looking at one of these cars. The stock shifter is that bad and the Numeric upgrade is that good, its practically a must.
The 991.2 shifter was an improvement, absolutely, with more positive syncros, and better shift modulation. More direct, and more precise, but yes, still not perfect. The 992, I was able to immediately get into the car, after not driving a manual 911 (or manual anything) for six months, drive it off the lot, and immediately felt at home. The shifter is SOO much more precise, the throws are short, the shifter is short, and engagement of the clutch and shifter was very clearly an area of focus and attention at Porsche and helps explain why it took 7 months after the 992 debuted for the manual to show up. Porsche clearly spent a lot of time getting it right. It is easily the best OEM shifter in a 911 in my experience with atleast 996, 997 and 991, which I like to think, I have more than the average Porsche owner and even many Porsche service techs.
My previous gripes with the .1 (vague shifter, two many gears packed into a tight space, easy to grab the wrong gear, always worried I might downshift from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, etc) and 991.2 much better, (but still a concern about grabbing the wrong gear, missing shifts, etc). The 2012 and 2013 both had an issue that needed to be fixed. Initially cars sometimes didn't start from an error (throttle position sensor) and Porsche needed to design and install a shim of some type to fix this. The 2013, I got so frustrated that I swapped out the shifter.
I initially considered an OEM GT4 shifter, and after quite a bit of research, ultimately went with a Numeric Racing shifter. Let me put it this way, if you own a 991.1 manual, this is THE UPGRADE I would do before anything else. I would always budget for a Numeric Racing shifter (about $600 plus 2 hour-ish install) when looking at one of these cars. The stock shifter is that bad and the Numeric upgrade is that good, its practically a must.
The 991.2 shifter was an improvement, absolutely, with more positive syncros, and better shift modulation. More direct, and more precise, but yes, still not perfect. The 992, I was able to immediately get into the car, after not driving a manual 911 (or manual anything) for six months, drive it off the lot, and immediately felt at home. The shifter is SOO much more precise, the throws are short, the shifter is short, and engagement of the clutch and shifter was very clearly an area of focus and attention at Porsche and helps explain why it took 7 months after the 992 debuted for the manual to show up. Porsche clearly spent a lot of time getting it right. It is easily the best OEM shifter in a 911 in my experience with atleast 996, 997 and 991, which I like to think, I have more than the average Porsche owner and even many Porsche service techs.
Last edited by ryandarr1979; 12-09-2020 at 01:39 PM.
The following 5 users liked this post by ryandarr1979:
chong0 (12-09-2020),
Dan Nagy (12-09-2020),
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russbert (12-09-2020)
12-09-2020, 02:52 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
After just driving my 2021 992 manual, I can easily and confidently say that any and all gripes I previously had with my manual 991.1 and 991.2 cars are completely gone. I had a 2012 991 Carrera, 2013 991 Carrera S, 2018 991.2 Carrera 4S and 2019 991.2 Carrera GTS. All 7 speeds.
My previous gripes with the .1 (vague shifter, two many gears packed into a tight space, easy to grab the wrong gear, always worried I might downshift from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, etc) and 991.2 much better, (but still a concern about grabbing the wrong gear, missing shifts, etc). The 2012 and 2013 both had an issue that needed to be fixed. Initially cars sometimes didn't start from an error (throttle position sensor) and Porsche needed to design and install a shim of some type to fix this. The 2013, I got so frustrated that I swapped out the shifter.
I initially considered an OEM GT4 shifter, and after quite a bit of research, ultimately went with a Numeric Racing shifter. Let me put it this way, if you own a 991.1 manual, this is THE UPGRADE I would do before anything else. I would always budget for a Numeric Racing shifter (about $600 plus 2 hour-ish install) when looking at one of these cars. The stock shifter is that bad and the Numeric upgrade is that good, its practically a must.
The 991.2 shifter was an improvement, absolutely, with more positive syncros, and better shift modulation. More direct, and more precise, but yes, still not perfect. The 992, I was able to immediately get into the car, after not driving a manual 911 (or manual anything) for six months, drive it off the lot, and immediately felt at home. The shifter is SOO much more precise, the throws are short, the shifter is short, and engagement of the clutch and shifter was very clearly an area of focus and attention at Porsche and helps explain why it took 7 months after the 992 debuted for the manual to show up. Porsche clearly spent a lot of time getting it right. It is easily the best OEM shifter in a 911 in my experience with atleast 996, 997 and 991, which I like to think, I have more than the average Porsche owner and even many Porsche service techs.
My previous gripes with the .1 (vague shifter, two many gears packed into a tight space, easy to grab the wrong gear, always worried I might downshift from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, etc) and 991.2 much better, (but still a concern about grabbing the wrong gear, missing shifts, etc). The 2012 and 2013 both had an issue that needed to be fixed. Initially cars sometimes didn't start from an error (throttle position sensor) and Porsche needed to design and install a shim of some type to fix this. The 2013, I got so frustrated that I swapped out the shifter.
I initially considered an OEM GT4 shifter, and after quite a bit of research, ultimately went with a Numeric Racing shifter. Let me put it this way, if you own a 991.1 manual, this is THE UPGRADE I would do before anything else. I would always budget for a Numeric Racing shifter (about $600 plus 2 hour-ish install) when looking at one of these cars. The stock shifter is that bad and the Numeric upgrade is that good, its practically a must.
The 991.2 shifter was an improvement, absolutely, with more positive syncros, and better shift modulation. More direct, and more precise, but yes, still not perfect. The 992, I was able to immediately get into the car, after not driving a manual 911 (or manual anything) for six months, drive it off the lot, and immediately felt at home. The shifter is SOO much more precise, the throws are short, the shifter is short, and engagement of the clutch and shifter was very clearly an area of focus and attention at Porsche and helps explain why it took 7 months after the 992 debuted for the manual to show up. Porsche clearly spent a lot of time getting it right. It is easily the best OEM shifter in a 911 in my experience with atleast 996, 997 and 991, which I like to think, I have more than the average Porsche owner and even many Porsche service techs.
The following users liked this post:
Dan Nagy (12-09-2020)
12-10-2020, 03:01 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
After just driving my 2021 992 manual, I can easily and confidently say that any and all gripes I previously had with my manual 991.1 and 991.2 cars are completely gone. I had a 2012 991 Carrera, 2013 991 Carrera S, 2018 991.2 Carrera 4S and 2019 991.2 Carrera GTS. All 7 speeds.
My previous gripes with the .1 (vague shifter, two many gears packed into a tight space, easy to grab the wrong gear, always worried I might downshift from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, etc) and 991.2 much better, (but still a concern about grabbing the wrong gear, missing shifts, etc). The 2012 and 2013 both had an issue that needed to be fixed. Initially cars sometimes didn't start from an error (throttle position sensor) and Porsche needed to design and install a shim of some type to fix this. The 2013, I got so frustrated that I swapped out the shifter.
I initially considered an OEM GT4 shifter, and after quite a bit of research, ultimately went with a Numeric Racing shifter. Let me put it this way, if you own a 991.1 manual, this is THE UPGRADE I would do before anything else. I would always budget for a Numeric Racing shifter (about $600 plus 2 hour-ish install) when looking at one of these cars. The stock shifter is that bad and the Numeric upgrade is that good, its practically a must.
The 991.2 shifter was an improvement, absolutely, with more positive syncros, and better shift modulation. More direct, and more precise, but yes, still not perfect. The 992, I was able to immediately get into the car, after not driving a manual 911 (or manual anything) for six months, drive it off the lot, and immediately felt at home. The shifter is SOO much more precise, the throws are short, the shifter is short, and engagement of the clutch and shifter was very clearly an area of focus and attention at Porsche and helps explain why it took 7 months after the 992 debuted for the manual to show up. Porsche clearly spent a lot of time getting it right. It is easily the best OEM shifter in a 911 in my experience with atleast 996, 997 and 991, which I like to think, I have more than the average Porsche owner and even many Porsche service techs.
My previous gripes with the .1 (vague shifter, two many gears packed into a tight space, easy to grab the wrong gear, always worried I might downshift from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, etc) and 991.2 much better, (but still a concern about grabbing the wrong gear, missing shifts, etc). The 2012 and 2013 both had an issue that needed to be fixed. Initially cars sometimes didn't start from an error (throttle position sensor) and Porsche needed to design and install a shim of some type to fix this. The 2013, I got so frustrated that I swapped out the shifter.
I initially considered an OEM GT4 shifter, and after quite a bit of research, ultimately went with a Numeric Racing shifter. Let me put it this way, if you own a 991.1 manual, this is THE UPGRADE I would do before anything else. I would always budget for a Numeric Racing shifter (about $600 plus 2 hour-ish install) when looking at one of these cars. The stock shifter is that bad and the Numeric upgrade is that good, its practically a must.
The 991.2 shifter was an improvement, absolutely, with more positive syncros, and better shift modulation. More direct, and more precise, but yes, still not perfect. The 992, I was able to immediately get into the car, after not driving a manual 911 (or manual anything) for six months, drive it off the lot, and immediately felt at home. The shifter is SOO much more precise, the throws are short, the shifter is short, and engagement of the clutch and shifter was very clearly an area of focus and attention at Porsche and helps explain why it took 7 months after the 992 debuted for the manual to show up. Porsche clearly spent a lot of time getting it right. It is easily the best OEM shifter in a 911 in my experience with atleast 996, 997 and 991, which I like to think, I have more than the average Porsche owner and even many Porsche service techs.
12-10-2020, 03:40 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Sounds like you finally got your car delivered! LOL. CARB must have released and your SA and dealer came thru! Glad to hear it! Was worried for a while if you'd enjoy the car once it arrived! Great to hear the MT lived up to your expectations even-though the sales and delivery experience wasn't.
12-10-2020, 11:26 PM
#44
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Had my car out today at PECLA, in one of their 'Owner Experience' sessions. Lots of fun of course but just saying, there's a big gap between 2nd and 3rd that you just don't notice on the road. I guess the fat mid-range torque covers it, but above 5k or so on their really tight layout it really stuck out. Weird thing is I don't recall it in either a 991.2 or GT4 on the same circuit. Have they changed the ratio's between 991.2 and 992? Or is there enough of a difference in rolling radius with the bigger rear tyres?
And yes, I know a PDK 8-speed would sort that. Even a 7-speed PDK but, well you know........
And yes, I know a PDK 8-speed would sort that. Even a 7-speed PDK but, well you know........
12-11-2020, 12:21 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
Had my car out today at PECLA, in one of their 'Owner Experience' sessions. Lots of fun of course but just saying, there's a big gap between 2nd and 3rd that you just don't notice on the road. I guess the fat mid-range torque covers it, but above 5k or so on their really tight layout it really stuck out. Weird thing is I don't recall it in either a 991.2 or GT4 on the same circuit. Have they changed the ratio's between 991.2 and 992? Or is there enough of a difference in rolling radius with the bigger rear tyres?
And yes, I know a PDK 8-speed would sort that. Even a 7-speed PDK but, well you know........
And yes, I know a PDK 8-speed would sort that. Even a 7-speed PDK but, well you know........