Considering PEC S vs 4S Experience...
09-01-2020, 04:40 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Turning IS acceleration. AWD does a whole lot more than help you in a straight line. It helps everywhere.
Rain, snow, loose surfaces -- AWD is better. Yes, you can put winter tires on a RWD and it certainly helps, but an AWD drive car with those same tires is significantly more potent.
As Ferris Bueller said, "It is so choice. If you have the means..."
With that being said, despite my AWD preference, I too would rather have a C2S properly spec'd with full leather, etc (ie $7k of options) than a bare bones C4S.
Rain, snow, loose surfaces -- AWD is better. Yes, you can put winter tires on a RWD and it certainly helps, but an AWD drive car with those same tires is significantly more potent.
As Ferris Bueller said, "It is so choice. If you have the means..."
With that being said, despite my AWD preference, I too would rather have a C2S properly spec'd with full leather, etc (ie $7k of options) than a bare bones C4S.
09-01-2020, 05:03 PM
#32
I have owned AWD and RWD cars here in Colorado all as DD with snow tires. There is no doubt you get better traction in snow and ice with AWD. That being said, my RWD cars, with front engine, think BMW M3’s, all drove great in the snow. When the snow got over 4” during a storm, I pulled out my Yukon XL and used that instead. In all other situations, I never got stuck. I ordered a C2S because I love the feeling of RWD and really don’t like the pulling of the AWD in a turn. Totally different driving experience. With the weight over the rear wheels, and really good snow tires I expect my C2S to add to the winter driving experience. YMMV.
Last edited by Marantz2270; 09-01-2020 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Grammar
09-01-2020, 05:09 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
09-01-2020, 05:12 PM
#34
Cincinnati.
I went to Kilgour school in 1979! Happy days. We had a Ford Falcon.
The mouse /cat thing is excellent. It costs Mr Porsche twice as much in cars, fuel, tyres, risk and servicing. Well done Porsche for going the extra mile in the pandemic. I had the best time.
I went to Kilgour school in 1979! Happy days. We had a Ford Falcon.
The mouse /cat thing is excellent. It costs Mr Porsche twice as much in cars, fuel, tyres, risk and servicing. Well done Porsche for going the extra mile in the pandemic. I had the best time.
09-01-2020, 09:44 PM
#35
Instructor
When you go to driving schools and take lessons from professional racers, the first thing they do when they enter your car is to turn off all aids/traction control/stability management. There are 2 main reasons for this, first being you don’t want anything that cuts power when there is any wheels slipping (which happens in literally every corner at the track) and you want the most predictably handling car in all situation. Because you learn to drive every corner at the limit you don’t want any scenario where the car is deciding for you to pull you out of a slide because there are good slides and bad spins and only you know which is which 100pc of the time and your reaction needs to be able to manage it.
Add to this the weight of another human being sitting on the front axle will alter the weight balance and steering feel of a car. One of the most important things to learn when tracking is also managing the weight shift of the car under braking and cornering. In an awd car its much harder to manage this predictably because midway through you managing, the car starts to manage it. It could work if you time your steering inputs with the car’s awd electronics but its much simpler to just get a more predictable rwd car.
Hence for me, unless snow/ice is involved i would choose rwd. However, it is for my style of driving. Some people may never never care for any of the above and they want a point and shoot car without worrying about weight shifts etc or don’t care to do a slight drift daily in those quiet street corners or ramps and for them c4/s maybe the right car.
Add to this the weight of another human being sitting on the front axle will alter the weight balance and steering feel of a car. One of the most important things to learn when tracking is also managing the weight shift of the car under braking and cornering. In an awd car its much harder to manage this predictably because midway through you managing, the car starts to manage it. It could work if you time your steering inputs with the car’s awd electronics but its much simpler to just get a more predictable rwd car.
Hence for me, unless snow/ice is involved i would choose rwd. However, it is for my style of driving. Some people may never never care for any of the above and they want a point and shoot car without worrying about weight shifts etc or don’t care to do a slight drift daily in those quiet street corners or ramps and for them c4/s maybe the right car.
09-01-2020, 10:41 PM
#36
Oddly, I think this element of the C4S is what I've found attractive as a prospective buyer (at least on paper). Given that a rear-engined car like the 911 is prone to swap the rear to the front upon breaking traction, the fact that the front wheels of a C4S can pull the car out of a spin would be confidence-insipring. Granted, I'll do everything I can to drive carefully and avoid breaking traction in adverse conditions (rain, ice or snow), so it may not matter at all.
09-01-2020, 11:05 PM
#37
Bit off topic but I did the mid vs rear engine experience and it was a blast.
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AlexCeres (09-27-2020)
09-02-2020, 10:41 AM
#38
I did the C2S experience at PEC Atlanta in July, and I had a phenomenal time. The follow-the-leader format worked pretty well, I think. The instructor has a radio to talk to you the entire time, and you get to really hit the areas of the course that you want to the most. Maybe the technical feedback would be a bit better if the instructor was in the car with you, but I was going mostly to just have a fun time, and I certainly accomplished that. I also learned a thing or two about driving 911s closer to their limits, so it was a win-win in my opinion.
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AlexCeres (09-27-2020)
09-27-2020, 01:32 AM
#39
Instructor
PEC pickup
My sales guy says that if I get PEC delivery, my date will be pushed back 1-2 months. Is that accurate? He says it has to go there first then the PEC. I am not sure why he is telling me this after we placed the order. The PEC has been part of the discussion since the beginning. Thanks!!
http://www.porsche-code.com/PMK6NVP5
http://www.porsche-code.com/PMK6NVP5
09-27-2020, 01:13 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
I see all these comments about how you need AWD in the snow. Nothing could be further from the truth. What you NEED is really good snow tires. Living in Colorado and Montana, I have driven almost exclusively RWD cars. Never an issue. I get the fact that most people want AWD because it does offer better traction on acceleration IF you have the proper tires. I drove past many AWD cars in the ditch when I had my LS7 powered GTO... With Blizzaks. No issues. If you want RWD and live in a snow climate, get it. Just get good snow tires like Michelin Alpine 5s.
09-27-2020, 01:48 PM
#41
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I see all these comments about how you need AWD in the snow. Nothing could be further from the truth. What you NEED is really good snow tires. Living in Colorado and Montana, I have driven almost exclusively RWD cars. Never an issue. I get the fact that most people want AWD because it does offer better traction on acceleration IF you have the proper tires. I drove past many AWD cars in the ditch when I had my LS7 powered GTO... With Blizzaks. No issues. If you want RWD and live in a snow climate, get it. Just get good snow tires like Michelin Alpine 5s.
AWD assists you in getting from 0 to 1 mph.
Proper tires aid you in all other circumstances, handling, braking, cornering, etc., when you are going anything over > 1 mph.
In other words, AWD is nice to get you moving from a dead stop, but once you are moving, snow tires play a bigger role.
One of the biggest downsides of AWD is that gives people a false sense of security -- i.e., I have AWD so I don't need proper (read: snow or wet traction tires), which is the furthest thing from the truth.
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inastrangeland (09-27-2020)