Marantz2270

I'm considering making a day trip down to PEC in Atlanta for the S vs 4S experience. My hope is that a) I will have a good time b) learn some things about these cars I haven't already read on the internet and, most importantly c) leave with some peace of mind concerning which model will best suit me for my driving. This will be my first P-car, and 30-minute test drives with each model in my novice hands told me nearly nothing about their differences. I'm hoping 90 minutes total will provide enough time to get a feel for both cars and make a decision about which car to order.

That said, has anyone here done the S vs 4S experience at the Porsche Experience Center? If so, did it help your decision on your 992 purchase?

I live in Middle Tennessee where it rains quite a bit, so I'm most interested in the wet driving characteristics of the S vs 4S. Thus, exercises focused on wet driving performance are what I am most excited about. I'm also interested to see if there are significant differences in how early/much you can apply throttle in corner exits.

Even if y'all haven't done the S vs 4S experience specifically, it'd be great to hear about PEC experiences with either car and your opinions on PEC experiences.

BIGWORM

I did GT3 and Turbo at PEC Los Angles and bought an 991.2 S when I did mine a few years back. You will have the time of your life and you will quickly realize you, most likely cant handle the power of the BASE....lol. They will take you around that track faster than you ever thought the car(s) could handle. At least that's how I felt once I was their.

The turbo was scary fast around the track and it did grab the corners much differently than the GT3. But I ended up loving the GT3 more. Mostly because I had more fun in the GT3 on the drift track than I did with the Turbo and its AWD.

Richard_Wallace

I went back and forth on RWD vs the C4S. I am in Cincy, so a little more Ice and snow in the winter, roughly the same amount of rain as you do down there. I went for the C4S, as this is my daily driver (year round - minus if we get some big snow storm or something). The added benefit of AWD is only about 20% of the time (heavy rain, snow). For me that 20% is critical if I really want to use it year round (I do not have to, but want to). So that extra grip on the front makes a big difference in that 20% when you want/need it. I also have a manual transmission on my 992 C4S, which it will be nice on those snowy days that I have the AWD which pairs nicely with the MT in those situations that you need more grip on the front.

From an overall drivers feel, nothing beats the S (RWD). Much more fun and can get the back to wiggle out more, etc. My other track cars are RWD, and wouldn't want it any other way.

I will say (this is my first AWD porsche, every 911 I have owned previously has been RWD. Porsches implementation of the AWD is really really exceptional (I will say even better than my lamborghinis I have had). There is a gauge that you can monitor when power is shifted from full RWD to both, and it is not often (so far this summer that I have had it). Today when driving in a heavy rain, it did show the AWD in action, where normally it is full RWD biased in most other situations I have been watching the gauge (even high acceleration it stays mostly RWD biased).

Bottom line, if you are going to daily driver it, and want/need that extra grip up front in all situations (of course in winter, winter tires will dramatically help both S and 4S). My wife also drives most of our cars - like that this one has AWD for a little extra security when it is needed since she is not as used to driving this one over hers.

If this is a 3 season car - I would probably opt for the S, save a little money and ability to wag the tail a bit more...

Michigan 992

I was slated for PEC at the start of August. I was going to use it to pick up some driving tips for my 992 Carrera S. I canceled because during COVID they will not have anyone in the car with you to give you feedback. It is now operating as a follow the leader approach to their circuit. I am not sure that you will get what you are looking for from the current PEC setup under COVID.

rumnyc

I am in the rwd camp because:
1) i want to slide out the back easily all the time. its one of the main reasons to get a sports car. its harder in the c4s to slide out the rear.
2) launch-control/drag racing/0-100 numbers are meaningless to me. the base engine would have been fine tbh.
3) i like the steering feel and balance of a rwd car. many say they drive the same with the rear bias of c4s but to me all awd drive a little differently from rwd cars. the steering is faster and the front changes direction a bit faster. faster is not the correct word but its the lightness in the front due to the lack of 110lb of hardware sitting on the front axle. its very small but it gives more confidence and makes driving more enjoyable to me. its the same reason i will probably never get a turbo and in that price range get something else thats also rwd like maclaren or ferrari or lambo.
4) i am confident in my ability to manage rwd car due to many driving schools and track days and wet mode seals the deal. i only have to deal with rain and no snow/ice in my area.
5) my dream was always to own a true 911 which is rear engine on rear axle driving rear wheels

detansinn

911s have been AWD for 32 years -- more than half of the 911's history has been AWD. So, you can leave the "true 911" nonsense at the door.
959, 918, 919 -- all of Porsche's peak performance cars, with the exception of the Carrera GT, have been AWD.
You can totally slide an AWD 911. Yes, the car has higher limits than the RWD versions -- the character is different, because you can go a lot further.

My dream 911 has been AWD since the release of the 959.

If I was driving in the rain of Tennessee, I'd go with a 4S. I love mine.

rumnyc

There are many reasons to get AWD over RWD but i wouldn’t do it unless i lived in areas with icy roads or snowy conditions. Rain for me would never be a reason to get awd because i won’t push the car in rain anyways. I have tracked rwd cars in F1 circuits in wet conditions and nothing is more exciting than holding a slide in the rain or scarier than sliding into wet grass and have no traction to steer or brake...

Awd cars even those with a rear bias drive and handle differently. the awd comes at a cost of weight and steering feel, and gain better traction off the line and a better safety in rain/ice/snow. You can go a lot further on awd before it breaks traction—infact it is almost impossible to break traction in the dry non-track conditions! i like breaking traction all the time just that little bit everyday. It’s kind of like manual vs Pdk arguement i suppose at least for people in warmer locales...

As you said you want the safety of awd but we may be looking for different things in our cars and thats perfectly ok. Porsche makes a 911 for everyone...

TheStanman

Agreed with comment above - PEC in COVID conditions may not provide the experience you are looking for without a coach in the car.

AWD is not that advantageous in rain except acceleration times, which I'm not driving hard in rain anyways. Snow is a different story.

AWD gives you car that's just slightly worse in many ways - price, weight, driving dynamics, steering feel. Porsche's AWD system is great but can't avoid that. In the dry it doesn't really accelerate any better (0.1 sec in all metrics according to Car and Driver).

IMO the trade-off is only worth it for snow.
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russbert

First, I felt Richard's explanation was very close to how I also felt having owned two AWD 911's (C4S & TT) in Cincinnati and also why I wanted them (for the snow more than rain). I remember vividly how I never worried about any sort of slippage (like starting from a stop sign on an incline in the rain) when driving either of the AWD 911's. But I borrowed my wife's Boxster S once during a heavy rainstorm and pulled out from the same situation, and had quite a bit of slippage.

However, prior to the 992, I had a Cayman GTS (RWD obviously) and I got caught in some absolutely horrific rainstorms last year. In February 2019, I got caught in two downpours that flooded areas that I have never seen flooded in the 9 years I have lived here so I was pleasantly surprised at how well it did in such heavy rain. So, since the 992 C2S was $7,300 cheaper I used that money for other things versus the AWD since it didn't provide a wider body, bigger brakes, etc. like the previous C4S's did.

But I was also "lucky" when my only real test drive of the 992 came during another really bad downpour on I-75 in Knoxville (close to rush hour) and I personally experienced how well the 992 RWD handled with Wet Mode (I wrote up the experience on Rennlist in someone's thread). Wet mode automatically reduces power (throttle mapping), deploys the spoiler, etc. to help and even though it was my first experience driving the 992, let alone in the heavy rain, I wasn't particularly nervous. It handled very well. BUT, wet mode also adds how it affects the AWD (I don't remember specifics) to increase stability so your question is a tough one, especially without a ton of experience driving in the rain. Bottom line, at least for me, I am not concerned about having a RWD 992 here in East TN and being caught in the rain as it's a great handling car. Just get what makes YOU the most comfortable in these situations.

detansinn

I must be one of those “drive hard in the rain types”, because there are clearly advantages in the wet.👍

russbert

There are DEFINITELY advantages (hopefully I made that clear), especially in the rain / snow (assuming winter tires). I loved how I could feel the front tires pull me through the turns while feeling the rear end squat and push, all at the same time!

I just decided I wanted a different experience this time, and so far, so good. The 911 is an awesome vehicle regardless of AWD or RWD, they both are lots of fun as I found out on the Tail of the Dragon this past week.

Marantz2270

Yeah, I'm a bit bummed about the COVID modifications to the PEC format. Completely understandable on Porsche's part to adjust to current virus-related concerns, but I think I was trying to convince myself before that it would be worth the $$$ to go for it now, which I've decided is not the case. I'd much prefer to spend the $$$ later when I can have a driver in the car observing my driving and instructing me from the passenger seat. Also, I don't want to miss out on riding with drivers who can really push the cars in a way that I can't.

Marantz2270

Great thoughts, thanks so much for sharing your insights and experiences!

I think I have been stuck on the notion of going for a C4S because of it's reputation as an ultimate do-anything, all-conditions, 365-days-a-year sports car. The 911 is so usable, and the thought of AWD taking that usability to its furthest reaches sounds so compelling.

That said: I won't be purchasing a winter tire set, and I have no intention of driving the car aggressively in the wet at all. I just want it to be safe to drive if I get caught on the highway in a storm. Having safely driven an '04 Tacoma for years in all conditions, I can't imagine a C2S being less planted than a compact truck with no weight over the rear tires!

The C2S I've configured comes out to ~$153,000, which is right about where I want to land with this car. That's without an order discount, but the way allocations are drying up, it sounds like a discount of any kind may be unlikely. So, much like you @russbert, I think I'd rather have $7K in options instead of AWD. Furthermore, I plan to own this car until the final year of the 992.2. This first go 'round, I can see what I think of the C2S characteristics, and if I think a C4S would suit my driving, I'll opt for that at trade-in in 2025/2026.

ipse dixit

Proper tires will give you all the traction you need in the wet.

Save the money with getting only a C2S on some options you wouldn't have spec'd otherwise on a C4S, like deviated stitching, RWS, or maybe splurge and get the PCCBs.

Can't go wrong either way, but no one really needsa C4S for the wet, just like no one needs a RWD 911 simply to hew to tradition.

sali1980

I always assumed C4/ 4S AWD drivers to be typically women 🤗. If you want to drive in snow just get winter tires!