Carrera S vs Turbo S visually...
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2020
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The whole supercar/exotics debate... I think perhaps some clarification is needed there. In my estimation, two things define a supercar... performance (hence the “super”), and rarity/exclusivity (hence the oft-used alternative descriptive term “exotic”).
There are simply too many TTS produced for the car to qualify as a supercar/exotic. It’s just not rare or exclusive enough.
But get it on a track, and it will greedily eat the lunches of the vast, vast majority of current supercars. And it will drive to that track and pick up In-N-Out on the way, while those supercars are trailered in like delicate butterflies. The performance aspect of the TTS is absolutely qualifiying.
If Porsche reduced production of the TTS to like 50-100 cars a year... Boom, it’s a supercar.
Come to think of it, there are a fair number of bonafide supercars that the regular old 992 S will spank on the track...
There are simply too many TTS produced for the car to qualify as a supercar/exotic. It’s just not rare or exclusive enough.
But get it on a track, and it will greedily eat the lunches of the vast, vast majority of current supercars. And it will drive to that track and pick up In-N-Out on the way, while those supercars are trailered in like delicate butterflies. The performance aspect of the TTS is absolutely qualifiying.
If Porsche reduced production of the TTS to like 50-100 cars a year... Boom, it’s a supercar.
Come to think of it, there are a fair number of bonafide supercars that the regular old 992 S will spank on the track...
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From: Doylestown, PA
Supercar is defined by the following criteria...
1. Limited and/or handbuilt production
2. Liberal use of exotic materials for the time
3. Utility extremely compromised in the name of extreme performance
4. Not derived from a car that failed the above three criteria
No 911 passes the above criteria. The Carrera GT and 918 do pass.
The above criteria holds for historic cars as well. For example, the Miura passes as well as the Ferrari F40 passes.
You cant use raw performance numbers as criteria, because classic supercars are considerably slower than modern cars.
1. Limited and/or handbuilt production
2. Liberal use of exotic materials for the time
3. Utility extremely compromised in the name of extreme performance
4. Not derived from a car that failed the above three criteria
No 911 passes the above criteria. The Carrera GT and 918 do pass.
The above criteria holds for historic cars as well. For example, the Miura passes as well as the Ferrari F40 passes.
You cant use raw performance numbers as criteria, because classic supercars are considerably slower than modern cars.
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,273
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Supercar is defined by the following criteria...
1. Limited and/or handbuilt production
2. Liberal use of exotic materials for the time
3. Utility extremely compromised in the name of extreme performance
4. Not derived from a car that failed the above three criteria
No 911 passes the above criteria. The Carrera GT and 918 do pass.
The above criteria holds for historic cars as well. For example, the Miura passes as well as the Ferrari F40 passes.
You cant use raw performance numbers as criteria, because classic supercars are considerably slower than modern cars.
1. Limited and/or handbuilt production
2. Liberal use of exotic materials for the time
3. Utility extremely compromised in the name of extreme performance
4. Not derived from a car that failed the above three criteria
No 911 passes the above criteria. The Carrera GT and 918 do pass.
The above criteria holds for historic cars as well. For example, the Miura passes as well as the Ferrari F40 passes.
You cant use raw performance numbers as criteria, because classic supercars are considerably slower than modern cars.
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From: Austin, Texas
I could get behind this logic.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2019
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Quote:
”Using the configurator I built a Carrera S and Turbo S.... interesting to note the similarities between the two models. Given the leap in price, what would make you go for a Turbo S over the Carrera S?
I’m somewhat on the fence...here in South Africa, for the price of a Turbo S, I could pick up a well specced Carrera S and a Cayenne Coupe....”
I live in Southern California, and I’ve put 3,500 miles on my Carrera S over the past 6 months, with a good mix of city, freeway, and canyon driving, and not once have I said, “I wish this car would go faster”. In fact, the majority of the time I have to hold back, out of concern for getting a ticket.
Matt Farrah, who reviewed both the Carrera S and the Turbo S for “The Smoking Tire” said that he really couldn’t perceive much of a difference between the 2 cars at speeds less than 100 Mph. He went on to say that the only real difference between the two is that the Turbo S will get you sent to jail faster.
”Using the configurator I built a Carrera S and Turbo S.... interesting to note the similarities between the two models. Given the leap in price, what would make you go for a Turbo S over the Carrera S?
I’m somewhat on the fence...here in South Africa, for the price of a Turbo S, I could pick up a well specced Carrera S and a Cayenne Coupe....”
I live in Southern California, and I’ve put 3,500 miles on my Carrera S over the past 6 months, with a good mix of city, freeway, and canyon driving, and not once have I said, “I wish this car would go faster”. In fact, the majority of the time I have to hold back, out of concern for getting a ticket.
Matt Farrah, who reviewed both the Carrera S and the Turbo S for “The Smoking Tire” said that he really couldn’t perceive much of a difference between the 2 cars at speeds less than 100 Mph. He went on to say that the only real difference between the two is that the Turbo S will get you sent to jail faster.
Last edited by G650; Jun 18, 2020 at 01:51 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 104
Likes: 97
Supercar is defined by the following criteria...
1. Limited and/or handbuilt production
2. Liberal use of exotic materials for the time
3. Utility extremely compromised in the name of extreme performance
4. Not derived from a car that failed the above three criteria
No 911 passes the above criteria. The Carrera GT and 918 do pass.
The above criteria holds for historic cars as well. For example, the Miura passes as well as the Ferrari F40 passes.
You cant use raw performance numbers as criteria, because classic supercars are considerably slower than modern cars.
1. Limited and/or handbuilt production
2. Liberal use of exotic materials for the time
3. Utility extremely compromised in the name of extreme performance
4. Not derived from a car that failed the above three criteria
No 911 passes the above criteria. The Carrera GT and 918 do pass.
The above criteria holds for historic cars as well. For example, the Miura passes as well as the Ferrari F40 passes.
You cant use raw performance numbers as criteria, because classic supercars are considerably slower than modern cars.
Merely pointing out that when it comes to pure performance, the TTS will get around a track faster than most current supercars. And the GT2 RS (on a good day) will get around one faster than any other production car period.
RL Community Team
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It doesn't have a race-derived, motorsport engine (its basically a pumped up 991 TTS engine), nor a true dry sump, and its chassis is basically the same as any old 991 911. Yes, it has some carbon bits, more body panels for downforce, magnesium wheels (as an option), and rose-jointed bearings, but those are all add-ons and not really all that exotic.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 871
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From: North Carolina, USA
I dont have any issues driving a supercar around. Its not point A to A but thats apparently my tolerance to risk versus your own.
I dont even really consider the TTS a supercar. Its a wonderful car at the pinnacle of all sports cars. Its insane to call it a supercar as its no more supercar than a 720S is hypercar even though they both blur their lines respectively.
I dont even really consider the TTS a supercar. Its a wonderful car at the pinnacle of all sports cars. Its insane to call it a supercar as its no more supercar than a 720S is hypercar even though they both blur their lines respectively.
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Joe Kucinski
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What sort of rare and bespoke materials does the 991 GT2RS use?
It doesn't have a race-derived, motorsport engine (its basically a pumped up 991 TTS engine), nor a true dry sump, and its chassis is basically the same as any old 991 911. Yes, it has some carbon bits, more body panels for downforce, magnesium wheels (as an option), and rose-jointed bearings, but those are all add-ons and not really all that exotic.
It doesn't have a race-derived, motorsport engine (its basically a pumped up 991 TTS engine), nor a true dry sump, and its chassis is basically the same as any old 991 911. Yes, it has some carbon bits, more body panels for downforce, magnesium wheels (as an option), and rose-jointed bearings, but those are all add-ons and not really all that exotic.
Pro
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 581
Likes: 352
My 911 isn't my toy, it's my daily driver. My toy is my Huracan EVO. If I were trying to consolidate the two the 992 TTS would be a strong candidate but I don't know if it would win when there are many other deals out there. The price point just doesn't make it appealing to me over some others that could be had for that money.
Others in a similar price point
- Low mile 720S w/ CPO can be had in 2018 model year for 245K. A friend just snagged one.
- 2019 leftover 600LT can be had for the same price.
- Low mile Performante
- New Huracan EVO RWD
- Low mile 488GTB
- Low mile Aston DBS Superlegerra
I think Porsche pushed their price point into a world they can't compete with the TTS at 250-260K
Others in a similar price point
- Low mile 720S w/ CPO can be had in 2018 model year for 245K. A friend just snagged one.
- 2019 leftover 600LT can be had for the same price.
- Low mile Performante
- New Huracan EVO RWD
- Low mile 488GTB
- Low mile Aston DBS Superlegerra
I think Porsche pushed their price point into a world they can't compete with the TTS at 250-260K
Drifting
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,627
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Agree. To be fair, the new Huracan EVO is at roughly the same price, but it would get spanked by the TTS in nearly every category except "how much does your car resemble a rolling hard on".
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From: SW Florida
So, what is a supercar then, if not defined by performance, quality materials, ability on the street and track, and exclusive pricing?
If a true supercar is defined by lack of comfort, extraordinary maintenance costs, and cars that only your less than favorite friends can own then I'm happy to stick with my TTS which is "super" to me and king of the road in most instances.
If a true supercar is defined by lack of comfort, extraordinary maintenance costs, and cars that only your less than favorite friends can own then I'm happy to stick with my TTS which is "super" to me and king of the road in most instances.
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What sort of rare and bespoke materials does the 991 GT2RS use?
It doesn't have a race-derived, motorsport engine (its basically a pumped up 991 TTS engine), nor a true dry sump, and its chassis is basically the same as any old 991 911. Yes, it has some carbon bits, more body panels for downforce, magnesium wheels (as an option), and rose-jointed bearings, but those are all add-ons and not really all that exotic.
It doesn't have a race-derived, motorsport engine (its basically a pumped up 991 TTS engine), nor a true dry sump, and its chassis is basically the same as any old 991 911. Yes, it has some carbon bits, more body panels for downforce, magnesium wheels (as an option), and rose-jointed bearings, but those are all add-ons and not really all that exotic.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 104
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Thinking about this a little more... Maybe the terms “supercar” and “exotic” should be considered disparate.
I mean, doesn’t it seem kind of silly to exclude the GT2 RS, literally the fastest production car in the world (where a track is concerned) from “supercar” contention, merely because it didn’t need to be hand-formed entirely from NASA-spec carbon-ceramic waffling and produced in batches of three a year to achieve that standing?
I mean, doesn’t it seem kind of silly to exclude the GT2 RS, literally the fastest production car in the world (where a track is concerned) from “supercar” contention, merely because it didn’t need to be hand-formed entirely from NASA-spec carbon-ceramic waffling and produced in batches of three a year to achieve that standing?