Bolo

I consider myself one of its customers. While it will be my first 911, it’s not my first Porsche (Cayenne GTS). I understand the the conversation around take rates but it’s obvious that enough customers care about the MT to warrant mention of its arrival in very many of the written and video reviews of the car, mention on the configurator and obvious interest by some here. That’s why I wrote that it feels like they are hedging when they could clearly just say yay or nay.

cgaites

I own a 997.2. I've seen the 997 go from being considered, "a bloated GT" and "not a real sports car anymore" in the late 2000s to the, "last real small, raw 911" today. The same is happening with the 991.1. When it came out it was, "bloated, with numb steering". With the release of the 991.2, the 991.1 became "so much more raw and visceral without the turbos." Today, with the release of the 992, the 991.1 has largely assumed the mantle of, "the last real 911" from the 997.

The 992 will be no different. Upon release we'll see a few years of, "its too much of a GT now". Then when the 992.2 comes out, plenty of 992.1 owners will swear the the magic has again been lost, and the consensus will be that the 992.1 is a great car. By the time the next 99X.1 body style is released, opinion around the 992.1 will be firmly into, "last real 911" territory.





Unless we don't get a manual. In that case screw the bloated, overweight, too much of a GT 992

ipse dixit

Yes, but the overall revenue (not to mention actual profits, which will be smaller) generated from the sales of MT cars (Cayman, 911) is so small that it barely counts as a rounding error for Porsche.

Just because there’s a demand for it doesn’t mean there’s necessarily a business case for it.

A company that markets to a niche audience either becomes irrelevant or extinct, or both. See Lotus.

frankchn

Precisely, especially as the 992.2 will probably have hybrid technology integrated into some trims (perhaps even in some GT cars ).

destaccado

It feels a bit like you're fabricating history in order to make your point.

Very few of us think the 991.1 was "raw and visceral", it was bloated and the steering was pretty numb since it was the first electric power steering system, but many definitely appreciate the lack of turbos and think it's got a great engine.

I'm also curious where your 997 comments are coming from. The first model of 997 was regarded somewhat negatively because of the engine - it still is. The 997.2 with the 9a1, got a lot more appreciation when it was released - nothing has really changed and good examples of the 997.2 fetch good money.

I doubt anyone that ever stated the 997.2 was "the last real 911" (as you put it) ever moved their bar forward.

Benedict14

The thrust of the OPs thread is an interesting question. ‘Are the majority of early 992 buyers people that have never owned a 911, or in many cases never owned a Porsche ?’

Whether that’s important is debatable, but it is interesting. If so, why the influx of people that have no background with a 911 ?

There does seem to be a thin skinned reaction to any criticism of the car. Poor Bob the moderator has been bombarded by their complaints regarding their ‘experience being ruined’. Despite the real lack of any experience, other than the visceral and the Tube of You.

“The night has been ruined for me” - Queen V

cgaites

Exactly. Every previous generation of 911 is the last real one to those who own it. Until they buy a newer one. Those who never move on, continue to think their generation is the best. Eventually, the only people who own a given generation are those to whom chose it because its specific characteristics best suit them. Guys who own long hoods think they were the best, and last real 911. Guys who own 993s are sure of the same. Guys who own 996s think the plot was lost with the 997... ...and on it goes.

Right now the 992 board is full mostly of guys who own 991s. Eventually it will be full of guys who own 992s. Hence perceptions of the 992 on this board will greatly improve over time as happened on the 991 board 7ish years ago, and the 997 board before that.

destaccado

At certain points along the way the market clearly demonstrates certain peoples' judgment was in fact "correct." Your idea is over-simplistic.

For example, with regards to the Carrera models, a 997.1 can be had extremely cheaply while a 997.2 is priced similarly as the equivalent 991.1; pricing mainly dependent on condition and mileage.

I doubt anyone with a 997.1 or a 996 thinks they have "the last real 911" unless they're deluding themselves. Most of those people that didn't buy new are probably just happy they got their cars relatively cheap. I think we'll have the same situation with the 992 where eventually the prices drop so far it makes sense to purchase over other models.

Claiming your idea already happened with the 991 and 997 board is really only partly true as that hasn't happened with the 997.1 and it really never happened with the 996, save perhaps the GT3 models which actually were well regarded when they were released.

Secondly, it appears the 992 board is filled with a lot of people who never owned a 911 or even a Porsche before - not a bunch of 991 owners claiming the 991 is "the last real 911." Matter of fact, I haven't seen a single post here to that effect. Personally, I absolutely think the 992 is a 911.

phefner

appears the 992 board is filled with a lot of people who never owned a 911 or even a Porsche before

^Exactly.

limegreen

+2, How can we set up a survey to confirm this?

ST BERNARD

I’m confused by your statement that a 997.2 is priced similarly as the equivalent 991.1. Here are the average prices for a 911s and 9114s(combined)
2006 $43k
2007 $44
2008 $49
2009 $53
2010 $58
2011 $62
2012 $65
2013.$70
2014 $78
2015 $82
2016 $89
2017 $96
2018 $111

As one would expect it appears that price is strictly based on age. I do not see where a 997.2 current price is anything different than any other year. Based on the 11 years above the price difference, except for 2011 and 2012, seems to go up most years by $4-8k each year. 2018 is an exception. Clearly a 991.1 sells for exactly what you would expect compared to a 997.2. The 997.2 has not retained its value any better than any other model.

ST BERNARD

Prices are for Coupes only

destaccado

I would assume that the older cars have higher average mileages.

Since you've only posted one of the two variables, it appears you didn't even read what I wrote or willfully chose to ignore it? What coupes are you comparing? A source would be helpful.

Further, what are you confused about? Your own link shows that in 2012 - the crossover year where both models are produced; the difference in price is $3000-5000 for the years surrounding it.

clutchplate

I've owned 12 Porsches with 5 being 911's. Haven't decided whether I'm getting a 992 until I see it in person but if I don't it will be because of (a) the sound, (b) the price, (c) the new C8 which I'm finding really hard to dislike for the money.

Sebvelez

Currently own two 911’s. Adding a 992. Very excited about it.